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Unknown Speaker 0:01
Welcome to Devotional Anarchy, a podcast about intimacy, attachment, sexuality, spirituality, self expression and other relational themes from a trauma responsive somatic energetic lens, and with a queer polyamorous twist, of course. I’m Isha Vela trauma psychologist somatic intimacy Alchemist shadow doula love at our guest, intuitive channel and sovereignty coach. You’re here because you understand that integrating intimacy wounds build safety and trust within your body. And that safety and trust is what allows you to fully own and direct your erotic and creative lifeforce in your relationships and purposeful work. My intention is for the conversations and tools shared in this podcast, to light a fire in your heart and under your magical ass while supporting you on your kinky human journey to owning all of yourself.

Unknown Speaker 0:51
Hello sovereign. This podcast episode is an attempt and I think a good one to replicate and extend on a conversation I had with Sasha Ostara. When I went down to Mexico in August. Some of you may remember Sasha from season one of the podcast, but for those of you who are not familiar with her she is a somatic feminist. She is the creator tricks of alchemy. She is a Vita certified sex, love and relationship coach specializing in female sexuality and JTAG practice. She is an integrative somatic trauma healer. She’s also neurodivergent feminist, she’s a storyteller at that artista a brouhaha and a fierce devotee of the universal goddess she is of Mexican, Lebanese origin. She is raised by resilient women who have experienced a lot of trauma in their lives. And she’s very aware of the both the political and the ancestral aspects of healing, which is what she integrates into her work really beautiful. And in this podcast episode, we address the replication of the gender binary when we use terms such as feminine and masculine even when we’re talking about energies, right, we were sort of wanting to break down the bullshit around the teachings of polarity. And in addition session, I addressed the slippery slope this can present for non men, right especially like how anchoring in the feminine can be an important but temporary step in the integration of self, and how even the most well intentioned and skilled coaches may not recognize how they’re upholding a divide when they’re marketing to women only. So this is a good one, you’re gonna want to listen all the way through

Unknown Speaker 2:53
ah, Sasha, I’m so excited to bring you on again, you were with within this podcast, season one. And I’m I wanted to bring you on season two, because we had such a good conversation in Mexico,

Unknown Speaker 3:08
about polarity and masculinity and femininity. And it’s been something that’s really been bothering me wanting to talk about wanting to disrupt and you’re the perfect person for it.

Unknown Speaker 3:20
I love it professional disruptors.

Unknown Speaker 3:29
So So one of the things that you do really well is to break down some of the harmful aspects of the way that polarity masculinity and femininity specifically is presented in coaching spaces. Thank you. That’s such an important conversation to have, I was so happy when I received your invitation because this is the topic we should be discussing more and more often. Otherwise, we are being complicit. I really feel like the coaching industry has become a huge

Unknown Speaker 4:07
part of the problem when it comes to the systems of oppression.

Unknown Speaker 4:12
And I know that that’s not where the hearts of most of the people that join this industry are. But that’s what we ended up doing when we keep replicating the same ideologies that have oppressed us to start with. And one of these ideologies is the binary model that that creates this idea of good versus evil, black and white

Unknown Speaker 4:41
women and men masculine and feminine energies and the whole idea of polarity deeply, deeply disturbing because it antagonizes people amid creates not only division but in visibility when it comes

Unknown Speaker 5:00
The Web people truly. Mm hmm. Yeah. And part of what sparked my desire to come on here with you. It was our conversation, but also, you know, just this idea of like feminine business, right? Like this idea that like, all you need to do is like, lean back and stroke your pussy, and the money’s just gonna come in. Right. And I just recently saw an ad buy by a very famous coach, the the lead the coach, right? And they were talking about like, what’s missing in your business? The feminine, right?

Unknown Speaker 5:38
And I just had this I had this eye roll moment of like, can like, can we just fucking myth bust this fucking feminine bullshit, please? Let’s do that. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 5:51
Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. So So share your your perspective on on where this gets where we start replicating these these harmful systems, through our business behaviors, how we promote ourselves, what we talk about how we talk about it.

Unknown Speaker 6:09
Thank you. So first of all, it starts with the idea that certain behaviors and traits are must you mean, and other traits are feminine? Yeah. And that’s the main

Unknown Speaker 6:25
and most disturbing part of this ideology, the idea that a certain amount of traits are feminine and another are masculine. Usually the feminine traits are

Unknown Speaker 6:40
emotional gems or time loving, caring chains. Yes. And I know that you will say, but I do all that I am. I am caring, gentle, loving. Yeah. But that’s not all you are, you are so much more than that. And then the other part, that is the masculine is intellectual, smart, is driven, is ambitious. It knows what they want. They are they are the ones that that get into the business of learning and understanding. They’re the smart one. And that’s,

Unknown Speaker 7:19
as we say, in the Spanish is on the Torsella por El Raval. That’s,

Unknown Speaker 7:26
that’s I think that’s really messed up. Because we have replicating the idea that men are intelligent. Men are ambitious. Men think clearly they think, and women feel and they just flow with it. And then, when I have spoken about this with people, they usually defend this idea of saying, no, no, we’re not talking about people. We’re talking about energy. But that’s still messed up. Because language is not accidental. The language that we choose has power. Yeah. So they are not talking about gene and Jiang or about flow, drive, they are talking about feminine and masculine. And that’s not by accident. And there’s so many things that are coming as a derivation of that, that they come just after that, the fact that we have angry dudes yelling at their microphones and speaking about how to be an alpha male and how women should be subordinated. It’s a consequence of this kind of belief that females females are starters as if it was the right term, like females are to be subordinated to be obedient to be submissive because we flow. And then guys, because they are smarter than they are.

Unknown Speaker 8:58
Yeah, that that is deeply messed up in many layers. But the main one for me is that we have replicating the idea that if you’re a woman, you’re stupid, and you just feel and you should leave the thinking to men, and you should leave the direction and the ambition and the learning and the intellectual clarity to men, and you just should settle with feelings. So that’s one thing and the other is it erases everybody in between. That’s why I was speaking about polarity like, we have not just one or the other, we have so many things we are complex mean. And if we are deleting the whole in between the whole moments in which we are not female or masculine, but so much more. We are deleting

Unknown Speaker 9:55
huge amounts of people.

Unknown Speaker 9:59
It doesn’t I think

Unknown Speaker 10:00
Pay with any of these things. Yeah, yeah. Even those of us that are sis women like me.

Unknown Speaker 10:09
Okay with all the things that I’m told that I should be as a woman like, right, yeah, I love any of that. Sasha, I don’t even identify necessarily like with being a woman like, I am, like, I have a policy, I have a vagina and all, like, anatomically, very much a woman. But I don’t I don’t identify when I see like, oh, this space is just for women. It’s not necessarily like, I don’t necessarily just right, want to get in there. You know, like, as a gender fluid person internally, I don’t necessarily present like that on the outside. But in my intimate partnerships, there’s a lot more fluidity and yes, there are moments where, you know, I like to, like sexually, for example, like take take some dominance and play with dominance. And then and then play with like, what have I surrendered and let go, and that is all a game of Leadership and Energy and following an attunement, very connected. And it is, it is also temporary. It is also sort of like a moment, right, and people get to sort of play in those spaces. People, you know, people in, in relationship coaching, for example, I’ve seen people retract some of the original statements they’ve made about polarity, because they’ve realized that they not only like harm women, in those in those in what they were teaching, but it also really like.

Unknown Speaker 11:38
Limits, right when somebody has to be in they’re supposed to masculine or a mega, right, or alpha, I don’t know, I don’t know what it is. But when they have to be in one or the other, it really traps someone, regardless of whether they identify as more alpha or more omega or whatever, it it traps people when we can’t be both. The idea that that I feel very connected to is that we all have a balance of both within us.

Unknown Speaker 12:10
And it’s, we need to be in balance. We don’t just embody the feminine.

Unknown Speaker 12:15
We don’t just embody the masculine. Right? And even calling it that just irritates me like using those terms. Because it’s a social construct. Yeah, years ago, when I was hearing feminists,

Unknown Speaker 12:31
before I consider myself a feminist, I would be so surprised by them calling gender a social construct. Now, I understand. Now I have I have learned why they call it that way. And the truth is, it is a construct the ideas of what masculine and feminine should be like, are not the truth of what we as humans experience, because it is a construct, just as I was just reading yesterday,

Unknown Speaker 13:04
a quote by Laurie Penny, in her book, unspeakable things. And she says, gender,

Unknown Speaker 13:12
its performance for profit. So, at the end of the day, we learn to perform as feminine and men learn to perform as masculine in order to obtain something from our culture from our Yes, yes, men learn that they are people that are born with penises, like people are assigned male assigned male assigned female. Yeah, exactly. People sit with the birth team gender from sex, right? Yes, people who have sex.

Unknown Speaker 13:52
biological sex, as men learn to be paid as men in quotations, according to what culture tells them that it’s okay for them to do so that they thrive so that they are safe, so that they are welcome. And it’s a never ending rat race for them. And the same happens to those of us that that were born with two C’s that we learn to behave as the plates that were named feminine in order to thrive in order to be seen to be welcomed. And that is constructed by society. But that’s not the nature of who we are. Yeah. And bringing that back to business.

Unknown Speaker 14:40
It’s so relevant to see the women that are thriving are called masculine. Oh, she has been thriving. Yeah, I don’t know like politicians. They thrive because they are in their masculine. And then you see this new

Unknown Speaker 14:57
group, this new pack of weight

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Men driving, because they are so much in their feminine that they just lay down and drop their purses. And yeah, that is nothing. That is not that is not about being in their feminine that it’s about playing the role of what society tells them that should be the flow redress is the smiling, not threatening face. It’s trying to please somebody occurs the sense so that just views people into your, into your net. And at the end of the day, that is the idea of society of what the feminine should be like. Right. And, and even when, and even when, you know, some of the some,

Unknown Speaker 15:48
some coaches who talk about the feminine like the dark, feminine, right? Also, right, who talks about the shadowy stuff, right? That is more encompassing. And yet, there is something in me that still feels like, like, I don’t even want to, it’s still, it’s still perpetuates separation and division, it’s still perpetuates a binary, right? Because even when we talk about structure and flow,

Unknown Speaker 16:18
I can I can sort of get into that. And I can also feel the part of me that’s like, when you go out in nature, nature is chaos. Nature is soft, nature will fuck with you. And nature has a lot of structure, there is a lot of order in the chaos and a lot of chaos in the order. It’s not separate. And we are all that nature that is all in us.

Unknown Speaker 16:47
I feel like

Unknown Speaker 16:50
there is this belief and desire to discover the wheel, you have to say, Yeah, I discovered the way in which the feminine should work now, yes, five ways. This is the one way.

Unknown Speaker 17:03
And the truth is that it’s just marketing. All of that is nothing but marketing. It’s finding that term that it’s going to be to be interesting for people that it’s going to resonate to people, but it’s just marketing, they’re playing with terminology. That should be or that has been actually studied by sociologists, by by anthropologists, by social anthropologist by psychologists like that there is a whole area of gender studies and biological studies, that all of these MBAs wrong. The truth is that there is no such thing as a feminine way of existence, or a masculine way Asst.

Unknown Speaker 17:54
And we still keep replicating the one word, that it’s going to attract people, because that’s just what marketing people want to hear. Women want to hear that they can be more feminine seduce people into their energy field. And men want to feel like Super Saturday, and they are like, Yeah, I’m an alpha male. The truth is that it’s just marketing, and they are just falling for the marketing idea of being this super hyper

Unknown Speaker 18:29
gender model, so that people can follow them. You know, and I can understand how that would be attractive, right? Have you if you feel like you haven’t, like you’ve been, you know, I don’t know how to say it. But like, you’ve had to be a certain way in your life, right? When you feel like you’ve had to be a certain way. And then somebody markets at you saying, you know, what, you can be a different way you can relax and let go. That totally makes sense. To me that has value. Right? Like, that is beautiful permission giving. And I’d like for us to talk like to really address the deeper issue, right? It’s not just about like relaxing into the feminine, it is about like bringing harmony within yourself like it is about like uncolonized things, the ways that you’ve learned to be in the world based on your socialization, whether that is you know, through hyper masculinity or hyper femininity right or any like any type of Gender Socialization

Unknown Speaker 19:40
Not to mention that

Unknown Speaker 19:43
they are when we fall into this trap of this gender socialization

Unknown Speaker 19:52
it becomes part of the of the smell.

Unknown Speaker 19:57
Oh, that like, like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Have snowballed. It just becomes greater. And yes.

Unknown Speaker 20:05
It starts innocently by saying, well, they call the family, it’s just low. And don’t be selfish. And you can say, well, that’s innocent enough. I can call it family as well. It’s about flowing, I can flow to flow after stress. Yeah, sure, let’s go with it. But then the next thing, before you notice, you are starting to talk about submission. Because you know, I’m flowing. So slowly means that I let somebody else take the lead. And that means that my nature is to submit, and then just start talking about submission. But it’s not just about the bid. Next time to notice you’re talking about financial submission and services in your relationship. And then something that the site has been very fun and being about the bedroom to proclaim becomes promoting submission as a way of living 24/7. And then before you notice, you are talking about treating the man like if he was the God and Savior in your house, and you serving his every need, um, do not setting boundaries, because when the reason I’m asking, I don’t know if you know, but that’s the, that’s the newest trend, you know, the boundaries, I’m asking, females don’t set boundaries, because that’s not feminine, because females want to be protected by men that just start opening the gates to fall in love.

Unknown Speaker 21:40
And that’s the danger. And it starts innocently, it starts with Yeah, I want to start stressing less, and allowing the flow and not having to be in control all the time. And it ends up eventually, little by little becoming a set,

Unknown Speaker 22:01
viciously dominant situation in which we are part of the perpetrators of the dominance that we have been trying to get away from this culture has thrived over a sense of having somebody on top and having somebody you know, and the moment we allow the separation, to even exist in our mind, we are creating the perfect round for the, for these parties colonizing mentality of being obedient and subservient. And somebody dominating and Ben,

Unknown Speaker 22:44
how do you feel about it in a kink situation?

Unknown Speaker 22:48
I think that kink, it’s amazing because it just like sex, it’s the perfect space where you can draw, play everything you want in the world, you can be dominant, and then submissive, and then, you know, you can play and change in the same session, and you can, or you can be naturally inclined to be more dominant or more or more submissive, and it has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with your nature or with your needs. Sometimes people that it’s very common to find CEOs finding a dominatrix, because they crave to have somebody ruling over them, like just dominating them telling them what to do so that they don’t have to worry about anything when they are when they are in that space. But it’s like taking a vacation from their from their usual role. Except it’s a playground. Yes, the mean that it has to be the way. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. And I think that you’re right, in that it’s a slippery slope, we have to be really careful and thoughtful about how we use these terms. Because I’ve, you know, just by like observing, like, following people’s feeds and noticing how things get talked about, like, it can easily flip, like, there’s moments where I feel it slipping into this place of like, oh, this is going down that slippery slope or this still feels okay, but I could I could see, just taking it a little bit over here would make it feel like, right. And I think that because I see the world in a more fluid or non binary way. I tended to focus more on

Unknown Speaker 24:38
talking about like the underlying issue, which is what you are talking about as well. Power, humanity, balance, nature, really getting into the to the foundation, and like, yeah, getting underneath some of the terminology, right and be like, okay, so what are we really talking about?

Unknown Speaker 25:00
out here, right? Instead of using these global terms, masculine and feminine, and you know, all these these umbrella terms, what are we really talking about? We’re talking about the nervous system. Right? We’re talking about grounding, we’re talking about feeling safe in our bodies, right? giving ourselves permission to be exactly who we are, who we were meant to be. Right? That is so important, because at the end of the day, we are all complex human beings. Yeah, with the very same needs, we need validation, we may have appreciation, we need to be seen, we need to be understood. To be loved, we need to feel like we bring value to

Unknown Speaker 25:45
life. That’s all that we are, we are not really

Unknown Speaker 25:51
looking for somebody to control us or to control somebody, or you don’t really need to bring business as the center

Unknown Speaker 26:05
with a need to mix business and this gender roles, because that is just perpetuating oppression. So

Unknown Speaker 26:14
at the end of the day, it’s salsa reclamation, I feel like,

Unknown Speaker 26:21
again, language is not accidental, we can choose the language that allows us to be free air, instead of more oppressed. Yes, when we are choosing a language that perpetuates oppression, we are not really looking for a business as a way to thrive as a whole as human beings, we are looking for business as an excuse to perpetrate oppression.

Unknown Speaker 26:52
And, for me, it makes sense that these businesses are thriving so much, because they are not threatening to the status quo. Like when you see these businesses are specifically

Unknown Speaker 27:08
thriving because they are so much in their planning in and they are so much in their in their flow. And the truth is that we see women that are thriving because they are

Unknown Speaker 27:21
not threatening to the patriarchal status quo. They are charming, they are gentle, they are soft, and having fun. And they want to be, to be to be concubines, to be these abusers to be to be all about giving pleasure to men, specifically, they play with the two primary. So they are not resume.

Unknown Speaker 27:50
And that’s why it’s easy for them. Right? They are usually attracting people that are still trying to find themselves in this system.

Unknown Speaker 28:00
And then feel like that, that resonates with them. Because it starts like that it starts like us just wanting to figure our way in this system to thrive in this system, and we see the sample everything that’s available for us. But then we find that people that are natural disruptors, people that are not part of the of the system, not because we didn’t want to but because we just didn’t fit the system because we were not.

Unknown Speaker 28:32
We weren’t never feeling totally feminine or totally masculine, or we were not young enough or are skinny enough, or,

Unknown Speaker 28:44
you know, people that are natural disruptors, we were not white enough.

Unknown Speaker 28:50
We didn’t fit in that space. And that’s what they don’t tell you. When they tell you this is the feminine way of doing things. They are not telling you. This is the white, young, skinny way of doing the thing.

Unknown Speaker 29:06
I Yeah, yeah. That’s the part that it’s deeply messed up. Yeah, then you see many women of color, struggling, trying to find their way seem to this way of doing things and just feeling like they will never belong, they will never get to do it. Because nobody told them that if you are

Unknown Speaker 29:26
if you are going for one division, you’re usually going for all of them. Yeah. So one division is of course, gender, female and masculine. The other is race. They are very students, they are there. It’s a physical expression. So just start just join in putting all these pieces together that are not only non threatening to the system, but they the system loves it. It just keeps going like that’s the thing. This this rants these people this

Unknown Speaker 30:00
way of doing business comes out as if they were

Unknown Speaker 30:04
fighting, patriarchy and empowering women. But the truth is that they don’t, they are actually perpetuating patriarchy because the patriarchal way of doing things. That’s why I love sorry.

Unknown Speaker 30:19
First question, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:22
Let’s Kelly deal says, when she says it’s not the feminine and masculine, if we really want to empower people, we need to divide them between the patriarchal way of doing things where so many women play along, versus the feminists way of doing things where we are craving for justice, when we’re craving for,

Unknown Speaker 30:45
where we are craving for a really,

Unknown Speaker 30:49
really powerful change, so that we can actually reclaim who we are, instead of aim to be that that character that that cartoon of what the feminine should be like, yes, yes. That is so powerful. Like I really wanting to repeat what you just said, that femininity does not equal feminism.

Unknown Speaker 31:15
Right. And it’s often sort of wrapped together in a package and sold as a as a, an offer together, but it’s not necessarily that it’s doesn’t necessarily go together. It doesn’t it’s not synonymous.

Unknown Speaker 31:30
Yeah. In and I want to share something personal that, you know, because I came from a background, where I had a lot of internalized machismo and sexism. Like I disparaged the quote unquote, feminism of femininity, right. Like I didn’t grow up girly, although there’s a part of me that wanted to embody that. I think there was a part of me that wanted that because I was not that I was simply not that and it was like a disappointment to me that it wasn’t that I that I couldn’t be wider, cuter, more petite, etc, etc. And, you know, when I, when I came in contact with Mama Geno’s worked, it was really liberating, because I got to be, I got to embrace some of those aspects of myself that I had been neglecting and missing and I got to stoke that fire, you know, so, it was, in a way, temporarily liberating for me to get permission, like I said, before, to have that part, to own that part. And then when I did, it was like, oh, okay, so now, like, I got to rest, right? Like, okay, so So that’s part of me now. And now what do I feel? Well, now I feel like I’m imbalanced, like, now I feel like complete and whole. And it really again, coming back to my earlier point, it felt like, like, I had reclaimed a part of myself. But it wasn’t necessarily like, feminine, it was a permission to, like, be more in my heart.

Unknown Speaker 33:08
It was a permission to like, it was about healing. It was about healing some of my intimacy wounds, like it wasn’t necessarily I wouldn’t I think at the time I assigned it feminine. But it wasn’t ultimately what it was.

Unknown Speaker 33:24
Yeah, that’s so important.

Unknown Speaker 33:29
I feel like that’s I was just writing about that this week. So it’s really it really resonates

Unknown Speaker 33:40
we start the journey looking for these specific traits begin to claim that which was denied. Yes, many of us yes. Because at some point the the capacity to feel sexy and to feel connected to our pleasure and our sexuality and to just be flirtatious and to just enjoy existing in our bodies. Yeah, watch the West health apart and kept just for those that were fitting into into the model of you know that the the the ones that feel that checkboxes Oh, I do, you beautiful blonde, skinny, wealthy, like all the boxes, like not, not too not not too curvy, but not too skinny, and not like that back the whole list checkboxes, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 34:40
And then the rest of us, which is the vast majority, who didn’t feel those checks was checkboxes were left craving to feel connected to our pleasure in our bodies. And we said that they call that being feminine. And we said that they call that

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Being being

Unknown Speaker 35:03
sexy, and being in being receptive sexuality and be respected. And the truth is that, for me, that was a search as well, I wanted that that’s have been denied to me as well.

Unknown Speaker 35:19
But in looking for that, I found a piece of myself that I didn’t know I had lost. I found that when I, when I connected to my pleasure, it was more about myself and about the others, it was more about loving myself, just the way I was in the state of love of wanting to look at. It was more about feeling like creating belonging inside of my body, yes, in my sphere, so that I didn’t feel like I needed to pray my way and belong somewhere else. So yes, that for me, it’s like a gateway drug. It just, it seems like yeah, you’re going to just go for the for the feminine pleasure. And you end up embracing the fall aspect of your fear sexuality. But the thing is,

Unknown Speaker 36:12
I found there

Unknown Speaker 36:15
a sense of gender, let’s make sure that I didn’t

Unknown Speaker 36:21
add up the looking for it. I found that I was so comfortable in being dominant fears.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
Intellectual, I found this craving to learn more, to know more the things that were neglected or rejected by me, because I felt that they were my students. I couldn’t embrace them now.

Unknown Speaker 36:46
I became one of those. And I know that not everybody takes these roles, that this journey of

Unknown Speaker 36:54
what started like as female empowerment, and I made it about actually empowering myself in all my complexity. Well, I know that not many going that drove many other people to save the polarity aspects of it’s a dangerous road, it can take you in a way of self discovery, where you can embrace the whole complexity of your gender. And you can use it as as being the full complexity of your humanity, beyond gender, and you can use it for everything for pleasure and for business and for your personal life. Or you can go in the road of polarity and try to use it for everything for business, for sexuality and for your personal life. The entrance seems to be the same at some point. Yeah. Then the journey goes. People say yes, thank you. Yes, yes. Yeah, you know, and even even, you know, promoting my most recent offer the harmonize business, Mind Body Soul business incubator, I was, I was using terms like structure and flow, because

Unknown Speaker 38:06
it’s something that people understand.

Unknown Speaker 38:09
You know, and that’s how I can talk about my work in ways that people understand and that sometimes this is sometimes the truth about marketing and sharing our messages that we use language in a way that people can understand even though

Unknown Speaker 38:24
you know, maybe we don’t, that’s not the way we experience it within ourselves. And we have to share it in a way that like resonates. And sometimes it’s like, it’s a hard choice to make. I don’t use femininity anymore, but I used to, and I used to use placee. And then like, I started experiencing my own gender non binary Ness, and it’s like, Oh, what am I doing? And it just, I just realized, like, how shitty that was, and how exclusive or non inclusive that was. And so I think, you know, we’re all on an evolutionary path, right? We’re all on colonizing ourselves. And we’re recognizing how some of these terms like languages power, and how some of these terms really perpetuate the same idea sort of recycle them in a slightly different way. You know? Yeah, definitely.

Unknown Speaker 39:21
I, I have to admit that many, many years ago, I was a fan of these theories of the separation of gender. I would say stupid things like we we should celebrate that we’re different. And now I’m like, Sasha, what was wrong with you? But also, I can tell you, through my own experience, how that belief system really messed me up.

Unknown Speaker 39:52
That belief system really affected me a lot. Because

Unknown Speaker 39:59
it really

Unknown Speaker 40:00
He created a very toxic idea of what I was capable of doing. And it puts a lot of very toxic expectations of my husband about what he should do as a man. Yeah, he went in the same direction, he started exploring sacred masculinity. And you know, we were in that I was exploring, exploring, sacred, feminine, US exploring sacred masculine.

Unknown Speaker 40:30
And now that I look at it, I’m like, no wonder we were such a mess. Because I was there waiting for him to take the lead to be the one in charge to be the this dominant masculine energy that I was reading about from the boots of David say that, because the masculine wants to ravish the family.

Unknown Speaker 40:56
Today, I look at that, and I’m like,

Unknown Speaker 41:00
Boris, we were so broke, and so angry and so sad.

Unknown Speaker 41:06
And just, in my case, so deeply disempowered, and in his case, the foundation of his power was machismo. So it’s really messed up. I saw it firsthand when I’m here speaking against that way of doing things. It’s because I went that drove and I know, it’s really messed up, I am coming back from it. And yeah, yeah, really made me feel stupid. It really made me feel incapable of doing things. Because when you keep repeating women, that they are, that when they are thinking they are in their masculine, what you’re telling them is, you’re stupid, to just feel like you don’t even try to do the thing, because that’s masculine. And if you’re too much in your masculine, you don’t flow with your true nature. So you need to flow with your true nature. And that means we need your feminine. That’s the message. And that’s messed up. We’re telling women that they’re stupid. And that’s the same thing that they told us 5000 years ago, we’re just put a nice glamour glimmer and

Unknown Speaker 42:10
lipstick on it to make it look pretty. But the truth is that it’s the same freakin message that we have been listening to for 1000s of years. And it’s about time we stop this nonsense, and it’s about time we start living way in a way of living life in a way that feels truly aligned to our nature, which is so complex, our lives change the way in which if you know what, I’m gonna take the lead, I know, I have a vision of where we want, I want to get us. So now it’s time for you to listen to me. Instead of saying jump in the mail. I will listen and I will take your lead. There was a whole like, I think I know where to go from here. Things started changing. Yeah. So I, I would have said the sash out. 15 years ago, I would have said, Oh, that’s because I used to think.

Unknown Speaker 43:07
But the truth is that I didn’t have

Unknown Speaker 43:12
you were just making a decision. Just use my freaking brain. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Having said that males are born with a brain and females are born with a heart. Yeah. And that’s pretty much what they are saying. Yeah, I mean, in essence, when you think about it, it’s we are assigning a story to something, right. And a lot of what coaching teaches is decoupling the story with a behavior or an emotion, right? That’s part of the trauma healing is uncoupling. But we’re still coupling the story of oh, it’s feminine, right. We give it a term, we give it a story. And then we assign all the behaviors and features and characteristics to it. So that’s, that’s where the real issue is, I think. And then, of course, we take away the feeling. Yeah, from Yes, I remember thinking at some point, when I saw my folks have been crying for something. I’ll make up men who have a heart. Yeah. And I laugh at myself for things or even wondering that. But the truth is that our culture tells us that they don’t, that they should be insensitive, and they should be all about all about being very logical. And the truth is that we keep replicating a system in which we are removing from women the capacity to think, from men the capacity to feel from everybody in between the right. Yeah, that’s really messed up. That’s it. That is it. Wow, Sasha wouldn’t

Unknown Speaker 45:00
awesome conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time today to share your medicine. And I wish we were airing this sooner so that people can be part of your cacao ceremony. But hopefully you’ll, you’ll offer that again in the future and people can can take part in, like on colonizing some of the ways that we’ve learned to to use ritual or use, you know,

Unknown Speaker 45:30

Unknown Speaker 45:32
right indigenous customs and, and,

Unknown Speaker 45:37
and medicine like incorrectly using them in ritual so hopefully you’ll be offering that in the future when you absolutely absolutely always have amazing stuff coming up

Unknown Speaker 45:52
into my Instagram make sure to catch up with all the the things that that for me it’s my pleasure to bring into into the world and to share with everybody and again because the same same principles apply they colonisation it’s also about decolonizing our genders, yes, oppression, and to exist in a way that that goes beyond all of those shackles and sand boxes that we would see them. Yes, perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 46:27
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