4.16 | Waking TF Up to Crone Wisdom with Amy Lorbati (Part 2 of 2)
Welcome to Devotional Anarchy, a podcast about intimate embodied leadership that is radically human, honest AF and thereby inherently disruptive to systems of disempowerment and disconnection. I’m Isha Vela, trauma psychologists, certified somatic practitioner, wealth wizard, licensed financial professional leadership coach, and intuitive business mentor. You’re here because you know self intimacy and self knowledge is the source of everything you want to create in your life. And that building safety and trust in your bodies would allows you to fully own and stored your energy in the direction of your desires. This season, get ready for deep dives into wealth building spirituality, emotional leadership, and human centered business with an activist twist. The conversations and tools shared in this podcast are your permission slip to manifest a life and business that lights your soul on fire and supports collective liberation.
Amy Lorbati and I discuss perimenopausal awakening in this podcast
All right, Amy and I are back for round two. Amy Lorbati, self proclaimed Oracle and CEO of the fempire known as Witch Bitch whore, sat down with me, and we’re continuing the conversation about perimenopausal awakening. There’s just something about getting older that creates the conditions for removing numbing substances, for example, that ends up leading to the greatest frequent awakening of your life up to that point. Right? I’m sure there’s other awakenings after that, but, yes, this is a big one. And in this podcast episode, we’re addressing what happens or what might need to happen when this awakening energy is met with how older women get treated by society, how we get pushed off to the side, and how, in response, we tend to disappear ourselves and silence ourselves. So Amy and I make the argument that it is precisely not the time to shut up because you are now entering a phase of great potency. In short, old bitches matter, so let’s listen to them talk.
Why are we talking about crone wisdom and menopause
All right, so we needed to continue the conversation because we were getting into the juicy bits and we ran out of time. So we’re. This is our part two where we’re going to do a deep dive into menopause. And why are we talking about crone wisdom and menopause? Because it’s related. Like, if business is a mirror to who we are, then, right? This is a stage of life. This is a phase of life, and it affects how we show up in our business and in all of our lives. So let’s talk about it.
Amy says her personality has changed over the last six months
All right. Welcome back, Amy.
>> Amy Lorvati: Hi, everybody. I’m excited to be back for round two.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, it’s really funny that we’re meeting today because just in the last 24 hours, so much has come into my field around menopause. Like, just stuff that I’m seeing online, obviously, because online is listening to me and the conversations that I’m having, so it’s giving me more stuff. But also, I had a conversation with, at the women’s clinic that I go to today, and I’ve been sharing with them, like, yeah. Like, my whole personality has changed over the last six months, and I’m kind of not loving it. So let’s talk about doing something about that, because I feel like I am such a joyful person, and I get so excited about entrepreneurship and business, and I just haven’t felt that in the same way. I feel it still, but it’s not the same. And it’s not that I’m not open to change, but I just feel like it’s been stronger than what I’ve wanted it to be.
What has been your experience shifting into this crone phase of your life
And I’m curious to just ask you, like, what has been your experience shifting into this crone phase of your life? What that transition has been like for you and how has it affected your business, if at all?
>> Amy Lorvati: I mean, I think there’s a, like, one of the things we, we were talking about in, in, in the first part of this was, you know, my father’s passing.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it was an interesting thing because I’m the oldest child, and it was sort of like, oh, wow, I’m the one who’s now kind of carrying on his name. I’m the oldest. I’m, you know, I’m the first in line here, really. You know, my parents are divorced, you know, but like, from his line, basically. Ah, and, you know, with this particular last name of lor boddy, there’s nobody else that has it. You know, he does have a sister who’s, who’s still living, but she does not, she doesn’t have the same last name. And I feel like there’s more of a seriousness almost like, you know, if people, have heard the term gravitas, like, there’s almost like a, ah, feeling of, I don’t want to say weight or responsibility, but it’s sort of like realizing that your experience on this planet is finite. And what do I want that experience to be? What I have left. And this is just a me experience. This doesn’t have to be anybody else’s experience. But I, let’s say the first 35, 45 years of my life were really on the corporate, like, you know, really in the mainstream world.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. In the matrix.
>> Amy Lorvati: In the matrix, I was completely in the matrix. You know, I was climbing the corporate ladder. I didn’t even. The word spirituality, I think, is fraught with a lot of problems. but I wasn’t even in any of the worlds that I’ve found myself in. I was nine to five. Actually, more like nine to eight. Was working a corporate job, was unbelievably stressed out, was exhausted, was drinking to cope, had eating disorder issues, bulimia. Just not living a happy life at all. And had really launched myself into a journey of spiritual discovery with the passing of, my youngest brother. He died about ten years ago. I just read in one of my journals, and at that point in time, I really looked at his life and at my life, and I was like, wow, I am just living a higher class version of his life. You know, like, we’re both addicted to substances. You know, he was just living a much rougher. You know, he was renting a room in, someone else’s mobile home, you know, he was living in a trailer on the outskirts of Austin, you know, in, like, farmland in a whole different world. And, you know, but I was really realizing, like, wow, he’s living a life. Just like, I I could judge him in his life, but if I look at my life, I just make more money, and I live in a nicer place, and I’m doing the same things he was doing, right?
>> Isha Vela: You just have more options.
>> Amy Lorvati: I just had more options. Right. But let’s just say I could buy different drugs, right, because alcohol was my drug of choice, right? So I could buy, you know, I could buy different things, but my experience was the same, you know? And that was, ten years ago, I was 46. I’m 56 now. And I’d say for the last ten years, I’ve really been on a mission of personal growth and spiritual development. And it’s been pretty much relentless. And I would say over the last couple years, this might be age related or not. I’m gonna answer your question here. Over the last couple years, I really lost connection with my passion, which is personal growth, which is helping other people live lives that are not stuck in the matrix or stuck. Stuck. And it’s almost like I found myself stuck in a little bit of a matrix of, spirituality, right? And I lost my focus. Right? I lost my connection to my passion, and I was miserable. And I’m not saying this is you. I’m just saying this is me. And I I’ve been. And I really went into a dark place. Today is 60 days alcohol free today. Whoo. And I’m not judging anybody who drinks or doesn’t drink, and I might drink again. I’m not saying anything about it, but what I needed to do was extricate myself from that so I could actually tell how I felt.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, how do.
>> Amy Lorvati: I was like, I had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression, and I couldn’t tell what it was related to. Is it age related? Is it, Because I hate what I’m m doing right now because I, like I said, I really had lost my focus. I’d lost my connection, I’d lost my joyous, and I was really stuck in the entrepreneurship piece. Right. And so I feel like I’ve recently extricated myself from that and also coming off alcohol. And right now I’m coming off sugar, too, because I ate a lot of gummy bears to get off alcohol a lot. And I didn’t look at the label. And my boyfriend, I was making him eat them because I was going off sugar. And he’s like, he’s not even into health at all. And he was, he was sitting outside reading the label as he was eating me goes. He goes, oh, my God. He goes, the first ingredient is corn syrup, and the second one is sugar because I can’t believe you were even eating these. And I was like, oh, my God. I’ve been mainlining corn syrup for two months. Getting off booze, like, and now I’ve got to get off corn syrup, right. Because, you know, so it’s like I’ve had a lot going on with my I moods that, you know, it’s. Sometimes it’s some work to tease out what is hormonal.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: What is the shit I’m eating and.
>> Isha Vela: What is, like, fucking just like, life thing and processing emotions. Ancestral whatnot. Right. Coming through.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. So it’s like I’m in the process of taking things out to actually be able to tell what’s my actual baseline, what’s my personality like. Cause I was also super addicted to, I don’t even know what to call it. I mean, people say doom scrolling. It’s just like, you know, like scrolling social media, scrolling news. And that was making me incredibly depressed. Like, I also think there’s what happens as you age as a woman. And one of the things that we ended on in the last episode was, I think you ended it with, you know, and then I started to disappear, you know, and it’s like, there’s also, there’s also the realization as you’re just walking through life trying to figure out who am I without drinking and without, you know, also drinking corn syrup, you know, or eating corn syrup. Eating corn syrup. And.
It’s also navigating what altering either substances or activities am I doing
Oh, also. And he was like, it has red dye number 40, or whatever the worst red dye is. It was in it. Right. I was just like, So what is chemically being introduced into my body? What am I feeding my brain with? Like, because we’re all addicted. Most people are addicted to social media and to their phones, you know, or to something on their phone. They’re addicted to having some kind of distraction all the time. And when you take that distraction away, sometimes we get very angry, and it’s like. It’s also sort of navigating what altering either substances or activities am I doing that’s taking away from my experience of being able to even process.
What’s it like to start to be viewed as something different
What’s it like to start to be viewed as something different than what you have been viewed as for the longest time, which is. I mean, for me, it was like being sexually attractive, being told I was pretty, being told I was beautiful, you know, having people look at me, having people pay attention to me, I still get attention, you know, because I have, a particular personality and a particular energy that I move through the world in. So, you know, people see me. Right. And they see me differently. Right. Yes. And so that’s been an interesting adjustment. Is being seen differently.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: and I’d say the other thing, too, is now, what’s my role?
>> Isha Vela: There is a change in role. Right. Do you feel like there’s a change? Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And identity.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, there’s a whole identity shift.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I’m gonna, like, I work with the. I work. I love archetypes. I work with archetypes, and I work, you know, I work with witch, bitch, whore. Witch and bitch and whore are three of the archetypes. And I think one of the things that had made you want to reach out to me to have the COVID I mean, besides, everything. But one of the things was because I had said, you know, I’m reclaiming crone. And. And on that post that I did that you had seen where I said, you know, I. Because, like, I work with some of the worst, like, using a judgment term, the worst shadow archetypes. Crone is a pretty not great one. I mean, you could also call yourself a hag. Right. Which might be worse. You know, I’m a hag. I’m a crone. I’m an old spinster. You know what? Whatever. Like, negative.
>> Isha Vela: Right. No good connotations there.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Like, when a woman gets old, something like, you become useless unless you are doing childcare for somebody else’s. Children or cleaning. And also just shut up and sit in the corner. Like, don’t speak, because if a woman’s voice. And I’m using gender here, but if, because it’s been going on for fucking millennia.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, I’m.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m not gonna pretend like the last, you know, five to ten years changed, anything. It didn’t change much. it’s like women’s voices have not really mattered. Women’s needs haven’t mattered. Women’s happiness hasn’t really mattered. Like, you’re supposed to find your source of joy, and happiness is supposed to be in your children, in taking care of your man, doing community related things, taking care of other people’s children, having a smile on your face, looking pretty, and shutting the fuck up.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Ultimately shutting the fuck up.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, just please shut the fuck up. Right. And I think that there’s an interesting thing that happens when women get older as you are stepping into a new identity, not one you’re necessarily choosing, but one that’s being put on you by society. And I don’t know if this is hormonal, like, when you stop bleeding, you also, or at least my experiences, I started to give less of a fuck about what people thought about what I had to say.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: Now, this is historically, I’ve not given as much of a fuck as what people thought about what I was going to say, even when I was younger, but even more so. Right. And it’s like, so then you have a woman who now doesn’t give fucks as, much about what people think about what she says.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And then they start saying things, and people are like, shut up.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Why are you talking? Right. And then you don’t give a fuck. So you’re like, I’m not going to stop.
>> Isha Vela: I’m going to get louder.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m going to get louder. And then it’s like, now they have a problematic older woman. Right. So what are we going to do.
>> Isha Vela: Amy? Then you’re not just a bitch, you’re an old bitch.
>> Amy Lorvati: You’re an old bitch who doesn’t care. And you’re not even. And then, like, I’m just thinking from. I’m thinking with a patriarchal mindset here.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: you’re not even good for fucking at this point. So what point, is there for you?
>> Isha Vela: There’s no use for you.
>> Amy Lorvati: There’s no use. Why are you still here? You should go into the woods and die.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: Exactly. It’s like you are like, I’m exaggerating, but not really. You are now an entity that is really not desired by kind of the mentality of the patriarchy.
If you are an older woman, you might start fading into the background
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman or a child, you know, or someone who’s non binary. It’s like, it doesn’t matter who you are. You also have been conditioned subconsciously, unconsciously, consciously by the patriarchy to also believe that. So if you are an older woman, you might really just start fading into the background. Because I don’t matter. No one’s listening to me anyway, so it doesn’t matter what I do, it doesn’t matter how I take care of myself. It doesn’t matter how I show up. It’s always harder for me because now nobody cares because I’m not even getting the attention of just walking into the grocery store.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly. And we can disappear ourselves.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I think a lot of women do disappear themselves. And I don’t want to use, It’s not necessarily stop caring about themselves, but it is in a little bit. It’s sort of like I’m not even going to make the effort to be visible because my evidence or the results is that I’m not. So why bother? Yeah, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: The zero fucks goes always.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: It goes in all directions. It’s like you don’t see me. I don’t care. I can show up invisible. I can walk through this. I can walk through this space, and nobody will notice me. I can walk through this. It’s almost like you put on invisibility cloak.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And what I’ve been feeling and I. What I’ve sensed from you, just kind of following you online, is that our wisdom, like, what we know, the wisdom we hold just increases exponentially as we transition from maiden mother, goddess, whatever into crone energy. And I feel like this is a time crone. The crone phase of life is a time of, in tremendous wisdom, when we’re then faced with that patriarchal. Shut the fuck up. What are you. Why are you even talking? Where we come up against that very energy, like, our energy of just, like, I give no fucks anymore, and then coming up against this invisibility of, like, why are you still here? And talking? Like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: So I kind of.
This was inspired by a comment that was made on this post that I posted
This was inspired by a comment that was made on this post that I posted. I think I said this in the last episode where I basically posted it so my partner would stop giving me a hard time about my gray hair. I was like, if I make it public, then I can’t go back. You know? I mean, I could, obviously, but I was like, while he was talking to me about it, I was like, let me just write this post right now. You’ll see that later. and somebody wrote because I said I was claiming crone. And it was interesting to hear my mother’s reaction. She’s not on Facebook, but I was talking to her about it, and she’s like, oh, honey, you’re not a crone. Like, no, not yet. And I was like, no, mom, I’m serious. She was trying to be like, oh, honey, everything’s fine. Pat, Pat, you’re not too old. I’m like, 83. I’m old. Nobody’s looking at me. And so I was like, no, mom, I’m serious. And someone wrote a comment on the post saying, I wish there was something in between mother and crone. And, I mean, her version was erotic high priestess. Like, erotic high priestess. And I was like, of course I want that in there, too. And I was thinking to myself, I didn’t write anything back. I just kind of let people comment on the thing because it was interesting to see the different comments. Some people are like, yeah, some people were like, ah. I hate it when people dye their hair anyways, and you shouldn’t wear makeup. You know those guys, right? Where it’s like, I like it all natural. It’s like, no, you actually don’t. Because I know that’s not true. I know you like, that’s not true. and then, you know, there were other people talking about, like, I can’t not dye my hair because I have the wrong color gray or I have, you know, there was like, you know, self, you know, disparagement. And I was. I sat there and I’m like, what she doesn’t know is that, the way I’m reclaiming crone is as erotic high priestess, so everybody can sit the fuck down. Because there is this when doing the. At least the kind of reclamation work that I do.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: How, do you reclaim whore? Right? And it’s like, I mean, there’s a lot of ways you can. And, you know, or bitch or, or witch. I get a lot of resistance from people saying, why would we want to reclaim something like that? And I’m like, it’s really about redefining it. And I really feel that the category of I don’t even. Whether we call it Crone, whether we call it matriarch, whether we call it, you know, the great mother, whether we call it the wise woman, you know, the wild woman, this wisdom that comes from walking 56 years on this planet, which is not even anywhere near my mother’s 83 years of wisdom. Now, she might not have had the same experiences, and she might not be interested in reclaiming anything or just be like, I totally support you, honey, but I don’t know what you’re doing. go for it. but it’s like this to me, it’s an opportunity to completely redefine what the fuck that means.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, absolutely.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it’s like, what can I do in the next 25 years or more? If I was going to say I don’t care what everybody on earth thinks, I. And, look, there’s plenty of cultures, I think, that might have more respect for their elders than the United States and Europe are, generally speaking, youth oriented cultures. So to me, it’s an opportunity. How do I completely redefine this? How do I completely redefine what it’s like for a woman in her older years, mature years, crone years, crone era? How do I redefine that for myself?
>> Isha Vela: Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, and there’s physical things that are happening in my body that I don’t have any control over. Right. And, you know, they can be managed probably with, you know, bio identical, which is the same thing as synthetic hormones. It’s just slightly better. It’s like, it’s kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so there’s opportunities that you can do with interventions, but I think one of the biggest tragedies, for women, and again, all the focus on the younger thing, you know, the younger women. And, you know, if I have a particular look and people want to feel younger, look younger, be younger, they might be more inclined to listen to somebody younger. But the reality is, you know, there’s an incredible richness and wisdom and, like, at least for me, I’ve had an increase in my intuition, an increase in my ability to make, you know, sort of divine connections. You know, I basically live. I’m looking outside my window. I live in the forest, right? So there’s trees all around connecting to nature. You know, it’s almost like right now I feel like I’m, both retreating from the world and also stepping forward into it, but in a different way.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: Right? So it’s like, in its. In our world, we don’t really have, I don’t know, almost like ceremonies, like transitions, like to allow you to welcome into a new identity and whether you’re seeing your personality change and you’re like, I’m not used to this yet. I don’t like this yet. I don’t know what’s going on. This isn’t comfortable for me, or. We don’t have almost anything for anyone who’s stepping into this. Let’s call it rain, right? Like, the Crone era. Like, to me, these should be. This is my opinion, amongst the years of greatest power.
>> Isha Vela: That’s exactly what I’m trying to bring home on this episode, is that this is a moment of leadership and power and self dominion, right? This sense of sovereignty. Like, I. Like, yeah, like, standing in your power. And. And this is the moment where we are relegated as obsolete, where we are asked to step out or step back and make way for the 30 year olds. And I’m just like, oh, hell, no. The 30 year olds get to stay, but I get to stay, too. I have shit to say. And through. Whether it’s through my business, through my parenting, whatever, right? But I feel like, yes, there have been times over the last year where I felt like. Where I’ve had that thought in my head where it’s like, yeah, maybe it’s time for me to step back. Maybe it’s time for me to retreat.
You say you need to be seen because the world will push you back
And what I keep coming back to is like, no, I need to be seen. I need to be heard. I need to be seen. I need to be heard. I have shit to say. Right? Like, I keep coming back to that over and over again. This is my time to say the things that nobody else is saying.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, right. And as you are claiming it, because I’m hearing you, I’m, witnessing you say that. Right. And it’s similar to me as. As you are saying that, as you are deciding that, as you are doing that, the world we live in will do a lot of things to try to push you out of the way or to push you back and to be quiet or even people, I think. I mean, I’m barely on TikTok, and I posted a video of me, one of the very few things that’s on TikTok of mine. There’s a video of me dancing in a pair of gold, panties and a pink fur bra. And this was, like, 2020. So this is,
>> Isha Vela: I think I remember that outfit.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, I was 52, and, I mean, I look good. right. And I remember some guy. The first comment I got on that video was, put some clothes on, you old hag.
>> Isha Vela: Oh, my gosh.
>> Amy Lorvati: And I looked at this person, and it was a very overweight, older man. And I was like, what are you doing, sir? What are you doing? Like you’re going to judge me on my body, which honestly, objectively looks amazing and my dance is amazing and I’m amazing and you’re sitting alone. M I’m making up stuff about him in your house, just like throwing acidic bullshit on women online for pleasure. Right. Or like this is how you’re spending your afternoon. It’s like, what are we doing as humans? You know? It’s like, why are we not celebrating this erade? Because everybody’s going to get here. I hate to break it to people who are 30 or 40. You’re going to turn, if you’re lucky, you will become 50 and 60 and 70, and if you’re really lucky, 80 and maybe 90 and you might live to be 100. And then what? You know, because we’ve created a category of humans that are not of value.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: And, you know, so it’s like how do I, as my own revolution, bring a different example of what it means to be a woman in power in her fifties, in her sixties, in her seventies, what does that look like? And I mean, we’re trying to figure out what that looks like in our twenties and in our thirties, let alone any other age. But I think it’s, to me it’s kind of like this wild and there are women who are doing work in this arena for sure, but to me it’s this kind of wild, unexplored, possibility rich environment of what does it mean? And how do I show up? Because it’s stepping into more leadership. This is what I believe. It’s stepping into more balance, you know, less reactivity. I’m going to say what I’m going to say, but I’m going to say it in a way that is respectful.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: If I can. It’s respectful to the person I’m speaking to and also respectful to me. Right. And that’s, that’s a navigation is, you know, how do I hold myself energetically in the face of all kinds of craziness going on in the world, right. Because it’s like old is, you know, I hope you die old and alone. You’re an old hag. This is like things that get said to women. Right. You know, you’re dried up, you know, useless. And, you know, as some of that stuff is actually kind of happening in my body, you know, like you do dry up a little bit and it’s like, what do I do? You know, now I’m becoming this thing and then it becomes like a mental mind fuckery, right? Like, vaginal dryness happens, and it makes me angry because my body’s not working the way that it used to. And then I can. It’s almost like I feel like I understand what it’s like to have erectile dysfunction. You know, I’m like, fuck. My body’s not doing what I’m used to it, doing in certain circumstances. And again, this is a whole bunch of shit that isn’t really talked about very much anywhere.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Ah, yeah. And I feel like this whole, you know, what we’re essentially talking about is initiation, right? When there are changes in our bodies, we are invited to be with those changes, to relate to those changes, and to let them. Let them move through us, right? And what I’ve been feeling over the last few years, subtly, right? And then, like, much more intensely, is rage. And sometimes when I really tune into the rage, I can sense that, yeah, some of it is mine, and a lot of it isn’t that I’m tapping into a collective rage. It’s almost like I’m feeling the rage of all the old women who were told to sit the fuck down and shut up. This is what is moving through me. Like, this is the energy that’s moving through me. And that’s kind of what gets me in moments of just like, oh, no, I need to be visible. I’m going to be visible. I’m deciding to be visible online because I can feel all the old women who were told to shut up and who were told were irrelevant. I can feel them spurning me on, like, egging me on to, like, hey, do it. Do the thing. Say the thing, you know? And so I feel like there’s a lot of, There’s a lot of medicine in some of the emotions that we feel, and that we can use it in service, right? That we can, through our business, through entrepreneurship, like, communicate that into the world as well.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, I just think it’s. I mean, I guess, you know, in a way, if you can, you should. You know, if you can take up space, you should. You know, if you can, have your voice be heard, you know, you should. And also, I think that there’s a lot of acceptance, really deep, deep work around acceptance, right? Accepting that this is what my face looks like, accepting that this. This is what my body looks like accepting. Like, you know, I look in the mirror, and it’s like I can see my mom, you know?
You’re shifting to non binary identity, which is revolutionary, right
And it’s like. It’s just. It’s such an interesting, you know, experience, right? And seeing the lines and in a world filled with filters and, you know, basically airbrushing of almost all the images that are going out there. Yeah, it’s like, how do I be real in a world full of fakeness? You know, how do, how do I, you know, do I need to find, like, a different style of dressing myself?
>> Isha Vela: Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, it’s like everything.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, everything. Like, yeah. How you show up just like, what you were wearing before is just, like, no longer relevant or no longer fits. You’re this new identity. Yeah, yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And this is absolutely. Have never heard anybody really, you know, talk about this in a particularly public way. And, I mean, yes, people have written books and yes, I’m sure, you know, people do workshops and, you know, I’m sure there’s people that work in this, in this area. you know, even people who are listening to this, like, I do this, but, but just kind of on a broader, you know, societal, cultural, level, it really isn’t that talked about, like, people, I mean, they don’t really tell you much about anything, to be honest. you know, in the world we live in. But, but especially this, because it really is an identity shift. It really is a change. And I think you’d have a lot more support or, I could be wrong, but it almost feels like there’s more support if you’re like, you know what? I’m shifting to non binary than if you’re like, you know what? I’m just going to be an older woman. Like, people are like, whoa, what’s that? That’s like, revolutionary. Like, you’re not allowed to do that, ma’am. You know, so it’s like, it’s such a, I don’t know, it’s like this taboo thing to be, you know, it’s like. And you’re supposed to know.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, well, because everything, even as we enter menopause, there are interventions to prevent us from going into menopause. Like, it needs to be medicated. It needs to, you know, we need to add hormones to it to make sure that it doesn’t happen or that we delay it. Right. It’s all this, like, thing that we want to push away. And I think that, like, my message here is that. Yeah, like, there’s, there’s parts of this that feel pretty gnarly and there’s parts of my twenties and thirties that felt really gnarly, that don’t feel gnarly now, for example, like, I don’t question my worth at all. I don’t believe the collective bullshit about me that I used to believe that I wasn’t good enough and that, I don’t believe any of that shit. And so that gives me this totally different license and permission to speak to be in the world. I don’t have as much social anxiety as I used to. Like, I have, like, 90% less social anxiety. I’m just like, I’m my fucking self wherever I go. And I’ve been noticing that. It’s like, oh, yeah, I don’t give a fuck anymore. Like, I just talk to people the way I talk to everybody. Like, I’m not filtering parts of myself out to make myself more palatable because, oh, I’m talking to this person and not that person. And I’m just like, no.
>> Amy Lorvati: Huh?
>> Isha Vela: Like, all those filters, I feel like, are like I’ve dropped them. So there’s this initiatory process of like, oh, this is really beautiful.
With age comes wisdom, changes in personality that we may not expect
There’s some hard pieces, right? Changes in our body, changes in personality that we may not expect, that we may experience as a loss. And that’s kind of any stage of life involves losses and gains. Right?
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, yeah. But, I think because there’s such a stigma and, like, you’re saying there’s so many interventions to, you know, to look younger, to feel, you know, different, to not. I mean, I I basically have been completely unmedicated, you know, with regard to, you know, any kind of hormones. Whether that’s wise or not, I don’t know. You know, but I just kept, thinking to myself, yes. And also for hundreds of thousands of years, people, if they lived, you know, and maybe people didn’t live as long. Maybe they didn’t live past 40, right? So they really didn’t have to experience some of the things that we do now because we’re fortunate to live as long as we do. And so I’m just like, there has to be a purpose to this, right? And, you know, sometimes, like, hot flashes, you know, it’s just like, I don’t have them as bad as I did in my early fifties, but it’s like I am about to destroy everything. I’m gonna. I’m like, I don’t. I can’t stop it.
>> Isha Vela: I feel like there is a lot of destructive energy in the crone. I feel like there’s a lot of, like, you know, like when you clear the table, when you just, like, clear a path in the woods and you’re just like this mama bear and you’re just like. And you’re just, like, toppling trees and kicking shit to the side, I feel like, I’m in a lot of that energy, and a lot of the stuff that I’m throwing away is just like, yep, I don’t need that. I don’t need that. I don’t like that anymore. No, no, no. And I’m feeling so much no that it’s making room for this new yes. Right. A more, like, focused yes. That is maybe, like, maybe fewer yeses, but. But, like, yeah, I’m just feeling, oh, I want to clear that path. Oh, yeah. I don’t need to deal with this anymore. And I don’t need to deal with that bullshit anymore. It’s just kind of, yep, you’re out. No apologies. I don’t need to explain myself. You know, that there’s a. There’s. Yeah, there’s something there that feels really, like, good. And. And,
>> Isha Vela: That’s part of the power.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Because I think, you know, with age, like, this is, like, an actual saying. With age comes wisdom.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, hello. Really? Does it? Thank you for that obvious statement. With age comes wisdom. Right? You’ve seen things enough times. You’ve been asked to shut up for enough years. It’s almost like you see the cycles. It’s like you see these different people who are in power, and it’s like, I’m going, it’s the same shit. Different person speaking. It, It’s the same sort of pandering saying, oh, yeah, women have rights. Do we? Do we, like, do we have the same rights? I don’t think we do. You know, are we treated in the same way? No, but it’s like, oh, but things are different now. And it’s like, they really are and they aren’t. You know, there’s kind of the same thread is still there, and it’s like you might be wearing different clothes, you might be doing different things, but the same repression of people’s rights is still happening. And it’s, you know, I think, you know, once you’ve seen the same cycles for enough times, you know, you’re like, okay, I’m sorry, but I actually have to say something, and I’m not okay with what’s happening. I’m actually not okay with this treatment. I’ve had this treatment so many times that I’m done. Right. So your ability to just say this is out, rather than just going, oh, I can fix this, I can ship this, this can change. It’s just, you know, I think there’s a lot of clarity that comes from, you know, experience, and it’s a balance not to fall into prediction based on, you know, what you believe has happened or what the evidence that has happened. But it’s also, you know, having the clarity to go, okay, I’m gonna. I’m gonna call it like I’m seeing it right now. And also, I’m willing to be wrong here, or I’m willing to have something be different, you know, so it’s. I don’t know, I guess it is kind of like an all hands on deck, let’s clear everything out that’s no longer working for me because I’m no longer willing to be uncomfortable like I have been for my whole life.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly. Exactly. We just don’t put up with shit anymore.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. I was like, yeah.
Women of our age have a unique perspective on politics, activism
>> Isha Vela: And that can really extrapolate, just not just from our personal. In our personal, immediate lives, but also politically, socially, like, activism. Like our willingness to not put up with systems and codes that don’t work for us. I don’t know, I just feel like, even m thinking about what’s happening politically now. I feel like women of our age have so much power in being able to say, this is a clown show. Like, you old motherfuckers need to sit down and shut the fuck up and make way for this. Right? Like, there’s. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what else I wanted to say about that, but it’s just like, just calling bullshit. Calling bullshit on politics, calling bullshit on, you know, stuff that happens online, in online business, in, you know.
>> Amy Lorvati: Right. Because.
>> Isha Vela: Because we’ve been around long enough to witness the patterns, to see the trends rise and fall, we have that zoomed out perspective that younger people may not have simply because they haven’t been through as many cycles of death, rebirth. Death, rebirth. Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah.
The older you get, you realize that you don’t know anything
Well, the other thing, too, that I think that I’ve realized that, the older that I get is I actually know way less than I thought I did. And it’s really interesting to think how much I thought I knew when I was in my twenties and thirties. I think, like, you know, kind of like when at least for me, once I got into my late thirties, you know, early forties, I started to go, wait, I don’t know anything, you know, and, well, I was real sure, you know, in my twenties and thirties how things were. So I think that it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting thing, you know, more, and you also realize that you don’t know anything.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I agree. I agree. Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of, I feel like it’s bridge burning bridge walking bridge. You’re like, I’m, navigating, you know, these two worlds and you know, kind of trying to figure it all out here. you know, it’s just a, it’s an interesting, to me, balancing act also.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, I feel too, I feel like there is in some ways, I feel more hardened because I feel like there’s shit that I’ve just experienced and there’s things I know. So it’s kind of like these are my non negotiables. I just know myself. So that’s sort of where I draw lines. But then there is that softening of, yeah, there’s a lot I don’t know. And so that keeps me open and that keeps me receptive and that keeps me in this place of like, yeah, let’s just see what happens, you know? So there’s, it is that, that play between sort of like, oh, I know myself and. Yeah, like life is a mystery. Like we’re just going to stay open to whatever wants to happen.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, it’s. I mean, to me, it’s. I feel, the most grounded and centered and accepting of myself and a lot of other things now than I think I ever have been. You know, there was a lot of, there was a lot of self rejection. There’s a lot of self rejection when I was younger, you know, of not looking right or not being right or not having the right, you know, body or, you know, the right things or whatever. Now I’m just like, you look great, you know, like, I’m just. I love myself so much more now.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m so much more, I mean, self satisfied.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, I’m just like, I’ve spent enough time with myself, you know, now it’s like I feel like I know myself better. I feel like, Yeah, and there’s like a different kind of confidence, I think, too.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s the part that gets missed, is this confidence. It’s like, that was so hard won. When you walk this spiritual path, right. When you are initiated into spiritual work, you’re having to burn away all of these, the parts of you that don’t believe in yourself, that doubt yourself. Right. And you get to a place of confidence finally where you’re like, you may not feel like you know all the things, but there’s things that you really do know, and most of that has to do with you. And that is a really wonderful place to be, and that’s sort of what contributes to the not giving a fucks is the confidence to say, like, you know, if somebody rejects me, I still have me, right? And that’s enough. Like, the love that I have for me is enough to hold me in whatever rejection is going to happen. Right. And that is, like, so potent. Especially when we talk about business and saying the truth and being transparent and being bold and being visible, that is priceless.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I think, you know, just being visible at any age, it, can be challenging for, for people who identify as, as, as women. I mean, it can be for anybody. But, you know, because, again, why are you taking up space? Why are, you know, and it’s, it’s almost like, you know, women, female bodied humans tend to be easy targets. It’s like people are always like, you know, they’ll come after women more online than I think that they will men sometimes. And it’s just like, yeah, what? You know, so to even show up anywhere, you know, it’s already a thing. And then it’s okay. Now I have the confidence. And it’s also, you know, I find this with myself. I’m like, you know, going, ah, I wish I looked younger. You know, sometimes I still have that, like, oh, this is what my face looks like now. You know, if I, if I take a picture and I’m like, oh, God, I don’t know that I want to post this. You know, and it’s just like. But this is what your face looks like now.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly, exactly. Like, this is just what it is now. And we’re gonna post that because that’s a, that’s your face.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah.
>> Isha Vela: This is a face that needs to be seen.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Because I think that, you know, the three common, insults that women get, right? Like, fat, ugly and old, right? Like, they just love to throw those. Like, it doesn’t matter if you’re any one of those, though. Those tend to be included in part of it, right? Like, you know, yeah. You’re an ugly old woman or, you know, fat old woman. Or you’re an old woman or you’re old or.
>> Isha Vela: And the translation is unfuckable, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: right. You’re no longer, You no longer serve my needs, right.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Of propagating the species, right?
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, if you can’t have babies and I can’t fuck you, or I could fuck you, but I’m not interested. It’s just like this whole, it’s like, are you fuckable or not? And it’s so fascinating to me because this is my from the outside looking in, interpretation of men, a lot of men don’t give a shit. They don’t care. They’re just like, ah, if you can get it, great. If you can get a woman who’s 40 years younger than you, amazing, right? It’s like zero problems. But, it’s like, it’s almost inconceivable that a woman would be 20 to 40 years older than a man that she would be with. Impossible. But it’s totally normal.
As you get older, your rebel streak gets turned up
People just go, oh, he must have money, right? Money. There’s so much transactional relating in our world. you know, do you have money? Are you fuckable? What are we, like, what are we looking for? You know? So it’s sort of like, yeah, I kind of feel like if you are always a little bit of a rebel, you know, throughout your life, as you get older, I think that, rebel streak just gets turned up.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. That’s why you and I are having this conversation. Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And I think that, to me, there’s an arthem, and it’s like, how can I make this art? Right? How can I make this art? You know? And if that, if that helps anybody listening, just go, how would I make it art to reclaim crone as a high priestess or just as a regular crone, you know, just a general, garden variety crone? You know what? How can I make this art? How can I make my expression art? How can I make my appearance art? How can I, like, how do I want to dress, you know?
>> Isha Vela: Exactly, exactly. I think that is always the question, that is always the, bigger. Right. A bigger expression of self. How am I going to make this art? That is like my whole philosophy, and that’s where we take our life force energy, right. We put that right. The expression, the creativity, the arthem, we sort of bring it out through our, through this transformational experience.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, yeah. And I think that why it can be confusing, confounding, you know, upsetting is because I’m used to making art a particular way, and now I’m, now I’m being called with my art to do my art, possibly with a different identity, possibly with a different voice. And so it’s, I’m evolving my identity and my expression at, ah, the same time that I’m doing it right. And it’s right, you know, in a certain way, it hasn’t settled and maybe it never, it never will. I don’t know, but it’s like, it’s, it really is. I’m doing improv and I. And I don’t know what I’m doing, and so that I don’t know what I’m doing because I’ve never done this before, and I have no real good role models. Right. There’s not a lot of, you know, I’m not going around, right now, I am not even thinking of any good role models. So it’s like, I get to be the role model.
>> Isha Vela: You know, I get to pay whether.
>> Amy Lorvati: It’S just for me.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: So that. That would be my. This is kind of where I’m, netting out on this conversation. It’s art. And you are. You are expressing as you’re evolving into this new identity that you don’t even know what it is yet, and you have no manual and there’s no real guides around you because it isn’t really presented because most of the time, most people become invisible and you don’t see them anymore.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly. Bravo. This is a perfect place to end this conversation. And, of course, there’s so much more to say, but I feel like we really hit the points of really being in a transformational phase and sharing it in a way that feels as a unique and honest and transparent expression of who we are and where we are in this path of life. And, I really just appreciate you sharing your story and being so open about, like, who you are. And, it’s always such a. Such a pleasure to connect with you.
>> Amy Lorvati: So thank you. This has been, two very fun conversations. Yeah. Yeah. To everyone. Just remember, you are the art. And even if you’re just making the art for you. Yeah, that’s all that counts, you know? And if other people appreciate the art, great. But you can be, like, a zero fox artist and just do you. Exactly.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Beautiful. Thank you, Amy.
>> Amy Lorvati: Bye.
>> Isha Vela: Thank you for listening to today’s episode. Remember to hit the subscribe button to get notified of new episodes dropping on the new and full moons of each month. And if you haven’t already, leave us a five star review on iTunes to make sure that everyone who needs this transmission receives it. Until the next episode, I’m sending you fierce, fierce love.
>> Isha Vela: Thank you for listening to today’s episode. Remember to hit the subscribe button to get notified of new episodes dropping on the new and full moons of each month. And if you haven’t already. Leave us a five star review on iTunes. To make sure that everyone who needs this transmission receives it. Until the next episode, I’m sending you fierce, fierce love.Devotional anarchy is a podcast about intimate, embodied leadership
>> Isha Vela: Welcome to devotional anarchy, a podcast about intimate, embodied leadership that is radically human, honest af, and thereby inherently disruptive to systems of disempowerment and disconnection. I’m Isha Avela, trauma psychologist, certified somatic practitioner, wealth wizard, licensed financial professional, leadership coach, and intuitive business mentor. You’re here because, you know, self intimacy and self knowledge is the source of everything you want to create in your life. And that building safety and trust in your body is what allows you to fully own and store your energy in the direction of your desires. This season, get ready for deep dives into wealth building spirituality, emotional leadership, and human centered business with an activist twist. The conversations and tools shared in this podcast are your permission slip to manifest a life and business that lights your soul on fire and supports collective liberation.
Amy Lorbati and I discuss perimenopausal awakening in this podcast
All right, Amy and I are back for round two. Amy Lorbati, self proclaimed Oracle and CEO of the fempire known as Witch Bitch whore, sat down with me, and we’re continuing the conversation about perimenopausal awakening. There’s just something about getting older that creates the conditions for removing numbing substances, for example, that ends up leading to the greatest frequent awakening of your life up to that point. Right? I’m sure there’s other awakenings after that, but, yes, this is a big one. And in this podcast episode, we’re addressing what happens or what might need to happen when this awakening energy is met with how older women get treated by society, how we get pushed off to the side, and how, in response, we tend to disappear ourselves and silence ourselves. So Amy and I make the argument that it is precisely not the time to shut up because you are now entering a phase of great potency. In short, old bitches matter, so let’s listen to them talk.
Why are we talking about crone wisdom and menopause
All right, so we needed to continue the conversation because we were getting into the juicy bits and we ran out of time. So we’re. This is our part two where we’re going to do a deep dive into menopause. And why are we talking about crone wisdom and menopause? Because it’s related. Like, if business is a mirror to who we are, then, right? This is a stage of life. This is a phase of life, and it affects how we show up in our business and in all of our lives. So let’s talk about it.
Amy says her personality has changed over the last six months
All right. Welcome back, Amy.
>> Amy Lorvati: Hi, everybody. I’m excited to be back for round two.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, it’s really funny that we’re meeting today because just in the last 24 hours, so much has come into my field around menopause. Like, just stuff that I’m seeing online, obviously, because online is listening to me and the conversations that I’m having, so it’s giving me more stuff. But also, I had a conversation with, at the women’s clinic that I go to today, and I’ve been sharing with them, like, yeah. Like, my whole personality has changed over the last six months, and I’m kind of not loving it. So let’s talk about doing something about that, because I feel like I am such a joyful person, and I get so excited about entrepreneurship and business, and I just haven’t felt that in the same way. I feel it still, but it’s not the same. And it’s not that I’m not open to change, but I just feel like it’s been stronger than what I’ve wanted it to be.
What has been your experience shifting into this crone phase of your life
And I’m curious to just ask you, like, what has been your experience shifting into this crone phase of your life? What that transition has been like for you and how has it affected your business, if at all?
>> Amy Lorvati: I mean, I think there’s a, like, one of the things we, we were talking about in, in, in the first part of this was, you know, my father’s passing.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it was an interesting thing because I’m the oldest child, and it was sort of like, oh, wow, I’m the one who’s now kind of carrying on his name. I’m the oldest. I’m, you know, I’m the first in line here, really. You know, my parents are divorced, you know, but like, from his line, basically. Ah, and, you know, with this particular last name of lor boddy, there’s nobody else that has it. You know, he does have a sister who’s, who’s still living, but she does not, she doesn’t have the same last name. And I feel like there’s more of a seriousness almost like, you know, if people, have heard the term gravitas, like, there’s almost like a, ah, feeling of, I don’t want to say weight or responsibility, but it’s sort of like realizing that your experience on this planet is finite. And what do I want that experience to be? What I have left. And this is just a me experience. This doesn’t have to be anybody else’s experience. But I, let’s say the first 35, 45 years of my life were really on the corporate, like, you know, really in the mainstream world.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. In the matrix.
>> Amy Lorvati: In the matrix, I was completely in the matrix. You know, I was climbing the corporate ladder. I didn’t even. The word spirituality, I think, is fraught with a lot of problems. but I wasn’t even in any of the worlds that I’ve found myself in. I was nine to five. Actually, more like nine to eight. Was working a corporate job, was unbelievably stressed out, was exhausted, was drinking to cope, had eating disorder issues, bulimia. Just not living a happy life at all. And had really launched myself into a journey of spiritual discovery with the passing of, my youngest brother. He died about ten years ago. I just read in one of my journals, and at that point in time, I really looked at his life and at my life, and I was like, wow, I am just living a higher class version of his life. You know, like, we’re both addicted to substances. You know, he was just living a much rougher. You know, he was renting a room in, someone else’s mobile home, you know, he was living in a trailer on the outskirts of Austin, you know, in, like, farmland in a whole different world. And, you know, but I was really realizing, like, wow, he’s living a life. Just like, I I could judge him in his life, but if I look at my life, I just make more money, and I live in a nicer place, and I’m doing the same things he was doing, right?
>> Isha Vela: You just have more options.
>> Amy Lorvati: I just had more options. Right. But let’s just say I could buy different drugs, right, because alcohol was my drug of choice, right? So I could buy, you know, I could buy different things, but my experience was the same, you know? And that was, ten years ago, I was 46. I’m 56 now. And I’d say for the last ten years, I’ve really been on a mission of personal growth and spiritual development. And it’s been pretty much relentless. And I would say over the last couple years, this might be age related or not. I’m gonna answer your question here. Over the last couple years, I really lost connection with my passion, which is personal growth, which is helping other people live lives that are not stuck in the matrix or stuck. Stuck. And it’s almost like I found myself stuck in a little bit of a matrix of, spirituality, right? And I lost my focus. Right? I lost my connection to my passion, and I was miserable. And I’m not saying this is you. I’m just saying this is me. And I I’ve been. And I really went into a dark place. Today is 60 days alcohol free today. Whoo. And I’m not judging anybody who drinks or doesn’t drink, and I might drink again. I’m not saying anything about it, but what I needed to do was extricate myself from that so I could actually tell how I felt.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, how do.
>> Amy Lorvati: I was like, I had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression, and I couldn’t tell what it was related to. Is it age related? Is it, Because I hate what I’m m doing right now because I, like I said, I really had lost my focus. I’d lost my connection, I’d lost my joyous, and I was really stuck in the entrepreneurship piece. Right. And so I feel like I’ve recently extricated myself from that and also coming off alcohol. And right now I’m coming off sugar, too, because I ate a lot of gummy bears to get off alcohol a lot. And I didn’t look at the label. And my boyfriend, I was making him eat them because I was going off sugar. And he’s like, he’s not even into health at all. And he was, he was sitting outside reading the label as he was eating me goes. He goes, oh, my God. He goes, the first ingredient is corn syrup, and the second one is sugar because I can’t believe you were even eating these. And I was like, oh, my God. I’ve been mainlining corn syrup for two months. Getting off booze, like, and now I’ve got to get off corn syrup, right. Because, you know, so it’s like I’ve had a lot going on with my I moods that, you know, it’s. Sometimes it’s some work to tease out what is hormonal.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: What is the shit I’m eating and.
>> Isha Vela: What is, like, fucking just like, life thing and processing emotions. Ancestral whatnot. Right. Coming through.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. So it’s like I’m in the process of taking things out to actually be able to tell what’s my actual baseline, what’s my personality like. Cause I was also super addicted to, I don’t even know what to call it. I mean, people say doom scrolling. It’s just like, you know, like scrolling social media, scrolling news. And that was making me incredibly depressed. Like, I also think there’s what happens as you age as a woman. And one of the things that we ended on in the last episode was, I think you ended it with, you know, and then I started to disappear, you know, and it’s like, there’s also, there’s also the realization as you’re just walking through life trying to figure out who am I without drinking and without, you know, also drinking corn syrup, you know, or eating corn syrup. Eating corn syrup. And.
It’s also navigating what altering either substances or activities am I doing
Oh, also. And he was like, it has red dye number 40, or whatever the worst red dye is. It was in it. Right. I was just like, So what is chemically being introduced into my body? What am I feeding my brain with? Like, because we’re all addicted. Most people are addicted to social media and to their phones, you know, or to something on their phone. They’re addicted to having some kind of distraction all the time. And when you take that distraction away, sometimes we get very angry, and it’s like. It’s also sort of navigating what altering either substances or activities am I doing that’s taking away from my experience of being able to even process.
What’s it like to start to be viewed as something different
What’s it like to start to be viewed as something different than what you have been viewed as for the longest time, which is. I mean, for me, it was like being sexually attractive, being told I was pretty, being told I was beautiful, you know, having people look at me, having people pay attention to me, I still get attention, you know, because I have, a particular personality and a particular energy that I move through the world in. So, you know, people see me. Right. And they see me differently. Right. Yes. And so that’s been an interesting adjustment. Is being seen differently.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: and I’d say the other thing, too, is now, what’s my role?
>> Isha Vela: There is a change in role. Right. Do you feel like there’s a change? Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And identity.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, there’s a whole identity shift.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I’m gonna, like, I work with the. I work. I love archetypes. I work with archetypes, and I work, you know, I work with witch, bitch, whore. Witch and bitch and whore are three of the archetypes. And I think one of the things that had made you want to reach out to me to have the COVID I mean, besides, everything. But one of the things was because I had said, you know, I’m reclaiming crone. And. And on that post that I did that you had seen where I said, you know, I. Because, like, I work with some of the worst, like, using a judgment term, the worst shadow archetypes. Crone is a pretty not great one. I mean, you could also call yourself a hag. Right. Which might be worse. You know, I’m a hag. I’m a crone. I’m an old spinster. You know what? Whatever. Like, negative.
>> Isha Vela: Right. No good connotations there.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Like, when a woman gets old, something like, you become useless unless you are doing childcare for somebody else’s. Children or cleaning. And also just shut up and sit in the corner. Like, don’t speak, because if a woman’s voice. And I’m using gender here, but if, because it’s been going on for fucking millennia.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, I’m.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m not gonna pretend like the last, you know, five to ten years changed, anything. It didn’t change much. it’s like women’s voices have not really mattered. Women’s needs haven’t mattered. Women’s happiness hasn’t really mattered. Like, you’re supposed to find your source of joy, and happiness is supposed to be in your children, in taking care of your man, doing community related things, taking care of other people’s children, having a smile on your face, looking pretty, and shutting the fuck up.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Ultimately shutting the fuck up.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, just please shut the fuck up. Right. And I think that there’s an interesting thing that happens when women get older as you are stepping into a new identity, not one you’re necessarily choosing, but one that’s being put on you by society. And I don’t know if this is hormonal, like, when you stop bleeding, you also, or at least my experiences, I started to give less of a fuck about what people thought about what I had to say.
>> Isha Vela: Yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: Now, this is historically, I’ve not given as much of a fuck as what people thought about what I was going to say, even when I was younger, but even more so. Right. And it’s like, so then you have a woman who now doesn’t give fucks as, much about what people think about what she says.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And then they start saying things, and people are like, shut up.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Why are you talking? Right. And then you don’t give a fuck. So you’re like, I’m not going to stop.
>> Isha Vela: I’m going to get louder.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m going to get louder. And then it’s like, now they have a problematic older woman. Right. So what are we going to do.
>> Isha Vela: Amy? Then you’re not just a bitch, you’re an old bitch.
>> Amy Lorvati: You’re an old bitch who doesn’t care. And you’re not even. And then, like, I’m just thinking from. I’m thinking with a patriarchal mindset here.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: you’re not even good for fucking at this point. So what point, is there for you?
>> Isha Vela: There’s no use for you.
>> Amy Lorvati: There’s no use. Why are you still here? You should go into the woods and die.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: Exactly. It’s like you are like, I’m exaggerating, but not really. You are now an entity that is really not desired by kind of the mentality of the patriarchy.
If you are an older woman, you might start fading into the background
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman or a child, you know, or someone who’s non binary. It’s like, it doesn’t matter who you are. You also have been conditioned subconsciously, unconsciously, consciously by the patriarchy to also believe that. So if you are an older woman, you might really just start fading into the background. Because I don’t matter. No one’s listening to me anyway, so it doesn’t matter what I do, it doesn’t matter how I take care of myself. It doesn’t matter how I show up. It’s always harder for me because now nobody cares because I’m not even getting the attention of just walking into the grocery store.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly. And we can disappear ourselves.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I think a lot of women do disappear themselves. And I don’t want to use, It’s not necessarily stop caring about themselves, but it is in a little bit. It’s sort of like I’m not even going to make the effort to be visible because my evidence or the results is that I’m not. So why bother? Yeah, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: The zero fucks goes always.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: It goes in all directions. It’s like you don’t see me. I don’t care. I can show up invisible. I can walk through this. I can walk through this space, and nobody will notice me. I can walk through this. It’s almost like you put on invisibility cloak.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And what I’ve been feeling and I. What I’ve sensed from you, just kind of following you online, is that our wisdom, like, what we know, the wisdom we hold just increases exponentially as we transition from maiden mother, goddess, whatever into crone energy. And I feel like this is a time crone. The crone phase of life is a time of, in tremendous wisdom, when we’re then faced with that patriarchal. Shut the fuck up. What are you. Why are you even talking? Where we come up against that very energy, like, our energy of just, like, I give no fucks anymore, and then coming up against this invisibility of, like, why are you still here? And talking? Like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: So I kind of.
This was inspired by a comment that was made on this post that I posted
This was inspired by a comment that was made on this post that I posted. I think I said this in the last episode where I basically posted it so my partner would stop giving me a hard time about my gray hair. I was like, if I make it public, then I can’t go back. You know? I mean, I could, obviously, but I was like, while he was talking to me about it, I was like, let me just write this post right now. You’ll see that later. and somebody wrote because I said I was claiming crone. And it was interesting to hear my mother’s reaction. She’s not on Facebook, but I was talking to her about it, and she’s like, oh, honey, you’re not a crone. Like, no, not yet. And I was like, no, mom, I’m serious. She was trying to be like, oh, honey, everything’s fine. Pat, Pat, you’re not too old. I’m like, 83. I’m old. Nobody’s looking at me. And so I was like, no, mom, I’m serious. And someone wrote a comment on the post saying, I wish there was something in between mother and crone. And, I mean, her version was erotic high priestess. Like, erotic high priestess. And I was like, of course I want that in there, too. And I was thinking to myself, I didn’t write anything back. I just kind of let people comment on the thing because it was interesting to see the different comments. Some people are like, yeah, some people were like, ah. I hate it when people dye their hair anyways, and you shouldn’t wear makeup. You know those guys, right? Where it’s like, I like it all natural. It’s like, no, you actually don’t. Because I know that’s not true. I know you like, that’s not true. and then, you know, there were other people talking about, like, I can’t not dye my hair because I have the wrong color gray or I have, you know, there was like, you know, self, you know, disparagement. And I was. I sat there and I’m like, what she doesn’t know is that, the way I’m reclaiming crone is as erotic high priestess, so everybody can sit the fuck down. Because there is this when doing the. At least the kind of reclamation work that I do.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: How, do you reclaim whore? Right? And it’s like, I mean, there’s a lot of ways you can. And, you know, or bitch or, or witch. I get a lot of resistance from people saying, why would we want to reclaim something like that? And I’m like, it’s really about redefining it. And I really feel that the category of I don’t even. Whether we call it Crone, whether we call it matriarch, whether we call it, you know, the great mother, whether we call it the wise woman, you know, the wild woman, this wisdom that comes from walking 56 years on this planet, which is not even anywhere near my mother’s 83 years of wisdom. Now, she might not have had the same experiences, and she might not be interested in reclaiming anything or just be like, I totally support you, honey, but I don’t know what you’re doing. go for it. but it’s like this to me, it’s an opportunity to completely redefine what the fuck that means.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, absolutely.
>> Amy Lorvati: And it’s like, what can I do in the next 25 years or more? If I was going to say I don’t care what everybody on earth thinks, I. And, look, there’s plenty of cultures, I think, that might have more respect for their elders than the United States and Europe are, generally speaking, youth oriented cultures. So to me, it’s an opportunity. How do I completely redefine this? How do I completely redefine what it’s like for a woman in her older years, mature years, crone years, crone era? How do I redefine that for myself?
>> Isha Vela: Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, and there’s physical things that are happening in my body that I don’t have any control over. Right. And, you know, they can be managed probably with, you know, bio identical, which is the same thing as synthetic hormones. It’s just slightly better. It’s like, it’s kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so there’s opportunities that you can do with interventions, but I think one of the biggest tragedies, for women, and again, all the focus on the younger thing, you know, the younger women. And, you know, if I have a particular look and people want to feel younger, look younger, be younger, they might be more inclined to listen to somebody younger. But the reality is, you know, there’s an incredible richness and wisdom and, like, at least for me, I’ve had an increase in my intuition, an increase in my ability to make, you know, sort of divine connections. You know, I basically live. I’m looking outside my window. I live in the forest, right? So there’s trees all around connecting to nature. You know, it’s almost like right now I feel like I’m, both retreating from the world and also stepping forward into it, but in a different way.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, yes.
>> Amy Lorvati: Right? So it’s like, in its. In our world, we don’t really have, I don’t know, almost like ceremonies, like transitions, like to allow you to welcome into a new identity and whether you’re seeing your personality change and you’re like, I’m not used to this yet. I don’t like this yet. I don’t know what’s going on. This isn’t comfortable for me, or. We don’t have almost anything for anyone who’s stepping into this. Let’s call it rain, right? Like, the Crone era. Like, to me, these should be. This is my opinion, amongst the years of greatest power.
>> Isha Vela: That’s exactly what I’m trying to bring home on this episode, is that this is a moment of leadership and power and self dominion, right? This sense of sovereignty. Like, I. Like, yeah, like, standing in your power. And. And this is the moment where we are relegated as obsolete, where we are asked to step out or step back and make way for the 30 year olds. And I’m just like, oh, hell, no. The 30 year olds get to stay, but I get to stay, too. I have shit to say. And through. Whether it’s through my business, through my parenting, whatever, right? But I feel like, yes, there have been times over the last year where I felt like. Where I’ve had that thought in my head where it’s like, yeah, maybe it’s time for me to step back. Maybe it’s time for me to retreat.
You say you need to be seen because the world will push you back
And what I keep coming back to is like, no, I need to be seen. I need to be heard. I need to be seen. I need to be heard. I have shit to say. Right? Like, I keep coming back to that over and over again. This is my time to say the things that nobody else is saying.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, right. And as you are claiming it, because I’m hearing you, I’m, witnessing you say that. Right. And it’s similar to me as. As you are saying that, as you are deciding that, as you are doing that, the world we live in will do a lot of things to try to push you out of the way or to push you back and to be quiet or even people, I think. I mean, I’m barely on TikTok, and I posted a video of me, one of the very few things that’s on TikTok of mine. There’s a video of me dancing in a pair of gold, panties and a pink fur bra. And this was, like, 2020. So this is,
>> Isha Vela: I think I remember that outfit.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, I was 52, and, I mean, I look good. right. And I remember some guy. The first comment I got on that video was, put some clothes on, you old hag.
>> Isha Vela: Oh, my gosh.
>> Amy Lorvati: And I looked at this person, and it was a very overweight, older man. And I was like, what are you doing, sir? What are you doing? Like you’re going to judge me on my body, which honestly, objectively looks amazing and my dance is amazing and I’m amazing and you’re sitting alone. M I’m making up stuff about him in your house, just like throwing acidic bullshit on women online for pleasure. Right. Or like this is how you’re spending your afternoon. It’s like, what are we doing as humans? You know? It’s like, why are we not celebrating this erade? Because everybody’s going to get here. I hate to break it to people who are 30 or 40. You’re going to turn, if you’re lucky, you will become 50 and 60 and 70, and if you’re really lucky, 80 and maybe 90 and you might live to be 100. And then what? You know, because we’ve created a category of humans that are not of value.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: And, you know, so it’s like how do I, as my own revolution, bring a different example of what it means to be a woman in power in her fifties, in her sixties, in her seventies, what does that look like? And I mean, we’re trying to figure out what that looks like in our twenties and in our thirties, let alone any other age. But I think it’s, to me it’s kind of like this wild and there are women who are doing work in this arena for sure, but to me it’s this kind of wild, unexplored, possibility rich environment of what does it mean? And how do I show up? Because it’s stepping into more leadership. This is what I believe. It’s stepping into more balance, you know, less reactivity. I’m going to say what I’m going to say, but I’m going to say it in a way that is respectful.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: If I can. It’s respectful to the person I’m speaking to and also respectful to me. Right. And that’s, that’s a navigation is, you know, how do I hold myself energetically in the face of all kinds of craziness going on in the world, right. Because it’s like old is, you know, I hope you die old and alone. You’re an old hag. This is like things that get said to women. Right. You know, you’re dried up, you know, useless. And, you know, as some of that stuff is actually kind of happening in my body, you know, like you do dry up a little bit and it’s like, what do I do? You know, now I’m becoming this thing and then it becomes like a mental mind fuckery, right? Like, vaginal dryness happens, and it makes me angry because my body’s not working the way that it used to. And then I can. It’s almost like I feel like I understand what it’s like to have erectile dysfunction. You know, I’m like, fuck. My body’s not doing what I’m used to it, doing in certain circumstances. And again, this is a whole bunch of shit that isn’t really talked about very much anywhere.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Ah, yeah. And I feel like this whole, you know, what we’re essentially talking about is initiation, right? When there are changes in our bodies, we are invited to be with those changes, to relate to those changes, and to let them. Let them move through us, right? And what I’ve been feeling over the last few years, subtly, right? And then, like, much more intensely, is rage. And sometimes when I really tune into the rage, I can sense that, yeah, some of it is mine, and a lot of it isn’t that I’m tapping into a collective rage. It’s almost like I’m feeling the rage of all the old women who were told to sit the fuck down and shut up. This is what is moving through me. Like, this is the energy that’s moving through me. And that’s kind of what gets me in moments of just like, oh, no, I need to be visible. I’m going to be visible. I’m deciding to be visible online because I can feel all the old women who were told to shut up and who were told were irrelevant. I can feel them spurning me on, like, egging me on to, like, hey, do it. Do the thing. Say the thing, you know? And so I feel like there’s a lot of, There’s a lot of medicine in some of the emotions that we feel, and that we can use it in service, right? That we can, through our business, through entrepreneurship, like, communicate that into the world as well.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, I just think it’s. I mean, I guess, you know, in a way, if you can, you should. You know, if you can take up space, you should. You know, if you can, have your voice be heard, you know, you should. And also, I think that there’s a lot of acceptance, really deep, deep work around acceptance, right? Accepting that this is what my face looks like, accepting that this. This is what my body looks like accepting. Like, you know, I look in the mirror, and it’s like I can see my mom, you know?
You’re shifting to non binary identity, which is revolutionary, right
And it’s like. It’s just. It’s such an interesting, you know, experience, right? And seeing the lines and in a world filled with filters and, you know, basically airbrushing of almost all the images that are going out there. Yeah, it’s like, how do I be real in a world full of fakeness? You know, how do, how do I, you know, do I need to find, like, a different style of dressing myself?
>> Isha Vela: Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, it’s like everything.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, everything. Like, yeah. How you show up just like, what you were wearing before is just, like, no longer relevant or no longer fits. You’re this new identity. Yeah, yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And this is absolutely. Have never heard anybody really, you know, talk about this in a particularly public way. And, I mean, yes, people have written books and yes, I’m sure, you know, people do workshops and, you know, I’m sure there’s people that work in this, in this area. you know, even people who are listening to this, like, I do this, but, but just kind of on a broader, you know, societal, cultural, level, it really isn’t that talked about, like, people, I mean, they don’t really tell you much about anything, to be honest. you know, in the world we live in. But, but especially this, because it really is an identity shift. It really is a change. And I think you’d have a lot more support or, I could be wrong, but it almost feels like there’s more support if you’re like, you know what? I’m shifting to non binary than if you’re like, you know what? I’m just going to be an older woman. Like, people are like, whoa, what’s that? That’s like, revolutionary. Like, you’re not allowed to do that, ma’am. You know, so it’s like, it’s such a, I don’t know, it’s like this taboo thing to be, you know, it’s like. And you’re supposed to know.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, well, because everything, even as we enter menopause, there are interventions to prevent us from going into menopause. Like, it needs to be medicated. It needs to, you know, we need to add hormones to it to make sure that it doesn’t happen or that we delay it. Right. It’s all this, like, thing that we want to push away. And I think that, like, my message here is that. Yeah, like, there’s, there’s parts of this that feel pretty gnarly and there’s parts of my twenties and thirties that felt really gnarly, that don’t feel gnarly now, for example, like, I don’t question my worth at all. I don’t believe the collective bullshit about me that I used to believe that I wasn’t good enough and that, I don’t believe any of that shit. And so that gives me this totally different license and permission to speak to be in the world. I don’t have as much social anxiety as I used to. Like, I have, like, 90% less social anxiety. I’m just like, I’m my fucking self wherever I go. And I’ve been noticing that. It’s like, oh, yeah, I don’t give a fuck anymore. Like, I just talk to people the way I talk to everybody. Like, I’m not filtering parts of myself out to make myself more palatable because, oh, I’m talking to this person and not that person. And I’m just like, no.
>> Amy Lorvati: Huh?
>> Isha Vela: Like, all those filters, I feel like, are like I’ve dropped them. So there’s this initiatory process of like, oh, this is really beautiful.
With age comes wisdom, changes in personality that we may not expect
There’s some hard pieces, right? Changes in our body, changes in personality that we may not expect, that we may experience as a loss. And that’s kind of any stage of life involves losses and gains. Right?
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, yeah. But, I think because there’s such a stigma and, like, you’re saying there’s so many interventions to, you know, to look younger, to feel, you know, different, to not. I mean, I I basically have been completely unmedicated, you know, with regard to, you know, any kind of hormones. Whether that’s wise or not, I don’t know. You know, but I just kept, thinking to myself, yes. And also for hundreds of thousands of years, people, if they lived, you know, and maybe people didn’t live as long. Maybe they didn’t live past 40, right? So they really didn’t have to experience some of the things that we do now because we’re fortunate to live as long as we do. And so I’m just like, there has to be a purpose to this, right? And, you know, sometimes, like, hot flashes, you know, it’s just like, I don’t have them as bad as I did in my early fifties, but it’s like I am about to destroy everything. I’m gonna. I’m like, I don’t. I can’t stop it.
>> Isha Vela: I feel like there is a lot of destructive energy in the crone. I feel like there’s a lot of, like, you know, like when you clear the table, when you just, like, clear a path in the woods and you’re just like this mama bear and you’re just like. And you’re just, like, toppling trees and kicking shit to the side, I feel like, I’m in a lot of that energy, and a lot of the stuff that I’m throwing away is just like, yep, I don’t need that. I don’t need that. I don’t like that anymore. No, no, no. And I’m feeling so much no that it’s making room for this new yes. Right. A more, like, focused yes. That is maybe, like, maybe fewer yeses, but. But, like, yeah, I’m just feeling, oh, I want to clear that path. Oh, yeah. I don’t need to deal with this anymore. And I don’t need to deal with that bullshit anymore. It’s just kind of, yep, you’re out. No apologies. I don’t need to explain myself. You know, that there’s a. There’s. Yeah, there’s something there that feels really, like, good. And. And,
>> Isha Vela: That’s part of the power.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Because I think, you know, with age, like, this is, like, an actual saying. With age comes wisdom.
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, hello. Really? Does it? Thank you for that obvious statement. With age comes wisdom. Right? You’ve seen things enough times. You’ve been asked to shut up for enough years. It’s almost like you see the cycles. It’s like you see these different people who are in power, and it’s like, I’m going, it’s the same shit. Different person speaking. It, It’s the same sort of pandering saying, oh, yeah, women have rights. Do we? Do we, like, do we have the same rights? I don’t think we do. You know, are we treated in the same way? No, but it’s like, oh, but things are different now. And it’s like, they really are and they aren’t. You know, there’s kind of the same thread is still there, and it’s like you might be wearing different clothes, you might be doing different things, but the same repression of people’s rights is still happening. And it’s, you know, I think, you know, once you’ve seen the same cycles for enough times, you know, you’re like, okay, I’m sorry, but I actually have to say something, and I’m not okay with what’s happening. I’m actually not okay with this treatment. I’ve had this treatment so many times that I’m done. Right. So your ability to just say this is out, rather than just going, oh, I can fix this, I can ship this, this can change. It’s just, you know, I think there’s a lot of clarity that comes from, you know, experience, and it’s a balance not to fall into prediction based on, you know, what you believe has happened or what the evidence that has happened. But it’s also, you know, having the clarity to go, okay, I’m gonna. I’m gonna call it like I’m seeing it right now. And also, I’m willing to be wrong here, or I’m willing to have something be different, you know, so it’s. I don’t know, I guess it is kind of like an all hands on deck, let’s clear everything out that’s no longer working for me because I’m no longer willing to be uncomfortable like I have been for my whole life.
>> Isha Vela: Yes, exactly. Exactly. We just don’t put up with shit anymore.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. I was like, yeah.
Women of our age have a unique perspective on politics, activism
>> Isha Vela: And that can really extrapolate, just not just from our personal. In our personal, immediate lives, but also politically, socially, like, activism. Like our willingness to not put up with systems and codes that don’t work for us. I don’t know, I just feel like, even m thinking about what’s happening politically now. I feel like women of our age have so much power in being able to say, this is a clown show. Like, you old motherfuckers need to sit down and shut the fuck up and make way for this. Right? Like, there’s. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what else I wanted to say about that, but it’s just like, just calling bullshit. Calling bullshit on politics, calling bullshit on, you know, stuff that happens online, in online business, in, you know.
>> Amy Lorvati: Right. Because.
>> Isha Vela: Because we’ve been around long enough to witness the patterns, to see the trends rise and fall, we have that zoomed out perspective that younger people may not have simply because they haven’t been through as many cycles of death, rebirth. Death, rebirth. Right.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah.
The older you get, you realize that you don’t know anything
Well, the other thing, too, that I think that I’ve realized that, the older that I get is I actually know way less than I thought I did. And it’s really interesting to think how much I thought I knew when I was in my twenties and thirties. I think, like, you know, kind of like when at least for me, once I got into my late thirties, you know, early forties, I started to go, wait, I don’t know anything, you know, and, well, I was real sure, you know, in my twenties and thirties how things were. So I think that it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting thing, you know, more, and you also realize that you don’t know anything.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I agree. I agree. Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of, I feel like it’s bridge burning bridge walking bridge. You’re like, I’m, navigating, you know, these two worlds and you know, kind of trying to figure it all out here. you know, it’s just a, it’s an interesting, to me, balancing act also.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, I feel too, I feel like there is in some ways, I feel more hardened because I feel like there’s shit that I’ve just experienced and there’s things I know. So it’s kind of like these are my non negotiables. I just know myself. So that’s sort of where I draw lines. But then there is that softening of, yeah, there’s a lot I don’t know. And so that keeps me open and that keeps me receptive and that keeps me in this place of like, yeah, let’s just see what happens, you know? So there’s, it is that, that play between sort of like, oh, I know myself and. Yeah, like life is a mystery. Like we’re just going to stay open to whatever wants to happen.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, it’s. I mean, to me, it’s. I feel, the most grounded and centered and accepting of myself and a lot of other things now than I think I ever have been. You know, there was a lot of, there was a lot of self rejection. There’s a lot of self rejection when I was younger, you know, of not looking right or not being right or not having the right, you know, body or, you know, the right things or whatever. Now I’m just like, you look great, you know, like, I’m just. I love myself so much more now.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: I’m so much more, I mean, self satisfied.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Yes, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: You know, I’m just like, I’ve spent enough time with myself, you know, now it’s like I feel like I know myself better. I feel like, Yeah, and there’s like a different kind of confidence, I think, too.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s the part that gets missed, is this confidence. It’s like, that was so hard won. When you walk this spiritual path, right. When you are initiated into spiritual work, you’re having to burn away all of these, the parts of you that don’t believe in yourself, that doubt yourself. Right. And you get to a place of confidence finally where you’re like, you may not feel like you know all the things, but there’s things that you really do know, and most of that has to do with you. And that is a really wonderful place to be, and that’s sort of what contributes to the not giving a fucks is the confidence to say, like, you know, if somebody rejects me, I still have me, right? And that’s enough. Like, the love that I have for me is enough to hold me in whatever rejection is going to happen. Right. And that is, like, so potent. Especially when we talk about business and saying the truth and being transparent and being bold and being visible, that is priceless.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. And I think, you know, just being visible at any age, it, can be challenging for, for people who identify as, as, as women. I mean, it can be for anybody. But, you know, because, again, why are you taking up space? Why are, you know, and it’s, it’s almost like, you know, women, female bodied humans tend to be easy targets. It’s like people are always like, you know, they’ll come after women more online than I think that they will men sometimes. And it’s just like, yeah, what? You know, so to even show up anywhere, you know, it’s already a thing. And then it’s okay. Now I have the confidence. And it’s also, you know, I find this with myself. I’m like, you know, going, ah, I wish I looked younger. You know, sometimes I still have that, like, oh, this is what my face looks like now. You know, if I, if I take a picture and I’m like, oh, God, I don’t know that I want to post this. You know, and it’s just like. But this is what your face looks like now.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly, exactly. Like, this is just what it is now. And we’re gonna post that because that’s a, that’s your face.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah.
>> Isha Vela: This is a face that needs to be seen.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah. Because I think that, you know, the three common, insults that women get, right? Like, fat, ugly and old, right? Like, they just love to throw those. Like, it doesn’t matter if you’re any one of those, though. Those tend to be included in part of it, right? Like, you know, yeah. You’re an ugly old woman or, you know, fat old woman. Or you’re an old woman or you’re old or.
>> Isha Vela: And the translation is unfuckable, right.
>> Amy Lorvati: right. You’re no longer, You no longer serve my needs, right.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah. Of propagating the species, right?
>> Amy Lorvati: Like, if you can’t have babies and I can’t fuck you, or I could fuck you, but I’m not interested. It’s just like this whole, it’s like, are you fuckable or not? And it’s so fascinating to me because this is my from the outside looking in, interpretation of men, a lot of men don’t give a shit. They don’t care. They’re just like, ah, if you can get it, great. If you can get a woman who’s 40 years younger than you, amazing, right? It’s like zero problems. But, it’s like, it’s almost inconceivable that a woman would be 20 to 40 years older than a man that she would be with. Impossible. But it’s totally normal.
As you get older, your rebel streak gets turned up
People just go, oh, he must have money, right? Money. There’s so much transactional relating in our world. you know, do you have money? Are you fuckable? What are we, like, what are we looking for? You know? So it’s sort of like, yeah, I kind of feel like if you are always a little bit of a rebel, you know, throughout your life, as you get older, I think that, rebel streak just gets turned up.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. That’s why you and I are having this conversation. Yeah.
>> Amy Lorvati: And I think that, to me, there’s an arthem, and it’s like, how can I make this art? Right? How can I make this art? You know? And if that, if that helps anybody listening, just go, how would I make it art to reclaim crone as a high priestess or just as a regular crone, you know, just a general, garden variety crone? You know what? How can I make this art? How can I make my expression art? How can I make my appearance art? How can I, like, how do I want to dress, you know?
>> Isha Vela: Exactly, exactly. I think that is always the question, that is always the, bigger. Right. A bigger expression of self. How am I going to make this art? That is like my whole philosophy, and that’s where we take our life force energy, right. We put that right. The expression, the creativity, the arthem, we sort of bring it out through our, through this transformational experience.
>> Amy Lorvati: Yeah, yeah. And I think that why it can be confusing, confounding, you know, upsetting is because I’m used to making art a particular way, and now I’m, now I’m being called with my art to do my art, possibly with a different identity, possibly with a different voice. And so it’s, I’m evolving my identity and my expression at, ah, the same time that I’m doing it right. And it’s right, you know, in a certain way, it hasn’t settled and maybe it never, it never will. I don’t know, but it’s like, it’s, it really is. I’m doing improv and I. And I don’t know what I’m doing, and so that I don’t know what I’m doing because I’ve never done this before, and I have no real good role models. Right. There’s not a lot of, you know, I’m not going around, right now, I am not even thinking of any good role models. So it’s like, I get to be the role model.
>> Isha Vela: You know, I get to pay whether.
>> Amy Lorvati: It’S just for me.
>> Isha Vela: Yeah, exactly.
>> Amy Lorvati: So that. That would be my. This is kind of where I’m, netting out on this conversation. It’s art. And you are. You are expressing as you’re evolving into this new identity that you don’t even know what it is yet, and you have no manual and there’s no real guides around you because it isn’t really presented because most of the time, most people become invisible and you don’t see them anymore.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Exactly. Bravo. This is a perfect place to end this conversation. And, of course, there’s so much more to say, but I feel like we really hit the points of really being in a transformational phase and sharing it in a way that feels as a unique and honest and transparent expression of who we are and where we are in this path of life. And, I really just appreciate you sharing your story and being so open about, like, who you are. And, it’s always such a. Such a pleasure to connect with you.
>> Amy Lorvati: So thank you. This has been, two very fun conversations. Yeah. Yeah. To everyone. Just remember, you are the art. And even if you’re just making the art for you. Yeah, that’s all that counts, you know? And if other people appreciate the art, great. But you can be, like, a zero fox artist and just do you. Exactly.
>> Isha Vela: Exactly. Beautiful. Thank you, Amy.
>> Amy Lorvati: Bye.